perm filename F80.IN[LET,JMC]1 blob
sn#554840 filedate 1981-01-09 generic text, type C, neo UTF8
COMMENT ⊗ VALID 00454 PAGES
C REC PAGE DESCRIPTION
C00001 00001
C00048 00002 ∂02-Oct-80 1317 Mark Crispin <Admin.MRC at SU-SCORE>
C00052 00003 ∂03-Oct-80 0123 LWE tape export inquiry
C00053 00004 ∂03-Oct-80 0132 LWE
C00056 00005 ∂03-Oct-80 0318 HUMAN-NETS@MIT-AI HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #93
C00080 00006 ∂03-Oct-80 0703 JRA lisp
C00081 00007 ∂03-Oct-80 0809 JRA lisp
C00083 00008 ∂03-Oct-80 0859 VRP via Dialnet Diablo<-Dialnet->Sail
C00084 00009 ∂03-Oct-80 1000 JMC*
C00085 00010 ∂03-Oct-80 1058 Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE> CS200 schedule
C00086 00011 ∂03-Oct-80 1143 FFL
C00087 00012 ∂03-Oct-80 1229 Mark Crispin <Admin.MRC at SU-SCORE> Re: Diablo<-Dialnet->Sail
C00089 00013 ∂03-Oct-80 1259 ARG
C00090 00014 ∂03-Oct-80 1445 RPG
C00091 00015 ∂04-Oct-80 0201 HUMAN-NETS@MIT-AI HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #94
C00114 00016 ∂04-Oct-80 0940 CLT
C00116 00017 ∂04-Oct-80 1000 JMC*
C00117 00018 ∂05-Oct-80 0108 LWE tape export/ftp-score/dumper exemption
C00119 00019 ∂05-Oct-80 0916 Allen.Newell at CMU-10A Re: von Neumann
C00122 00020 ∂05-Oct-80 1019 REG
C00124 00021 ∂06-Oct-80 0111 RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
C00127 00022 ∂06-Oct-80 1112 FFL SEMINAR ON "KNOWLEDGE"
C00128 00023 ∂06-Oct-80 1409 ME slowness of substitution
C00130 00024 ∂06-Oct-80 1433 Bob Moore <BMOORE at SRI-KL> thesis reference
C00131 00025 ∂06-Oct-80 2218 CLT terminal stand
C00132 00026 ∂07-Oct-80 0127 AAM CS 204 problems
C00133 00027 ∂07-Oct-80 1213 Waldinger at SRI-KL seminar
C00134 00028 ∂07-Oct-80 1500 FFL
C00135 00029 ∂07-Oct-80 1600 JMC*
C00136 00030 ∂07-Oct-80 2013 Bob Moore <BMOORE at SRI-KL> Re: seminar on knowledge and action
C00137 00031 ∂08-Oct-80 0210 LWE tape export
C00138 00032 ∂08-Oct-80 0225 LWE
C00139 00033 ∂08-Oct-80 0837 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) TA for 206
C00140 00034 ∂08-Oct-80 0842 FFL
C00141 00035 ∂08-Oct-80 1230 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE NSF proposal/ Inst. for CS
C00144 00036 ∂08-Oct-80 1246 SEK Lisp at LOTS
C00145 00037 ∂08-Oct-80 1933 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
C00148 00038 ∂09-Oct-80 0303 POURNE@MIT-MC freedom
C00149 00039 ∂09-Oct-80 0346 HUMAN-NETS@MIT-AI HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #99
C00172 00040 ∂09-Oct-80 0926 CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE Bibliographies
C00174 00041 ∂09-Oct-80 1003 FFL
C00175 00042 ∂09-Oct-80 1008 FFL
C00176 00043 ∂09-Oct-80 1052 KATSUKI at BBND Hello from Dave Cipolle (to John Craig, if not you)
C00177 00044 ∂09-Oct-80 1137 ROB LIB.LST
C00178 00045 ∂09-Oct-80 1231 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE Binford, Tarjan cases
C00179 00046 ∂09-Oct-80 1243 TW
C00180 00047 ∂09-Oct-80 1515 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
C00181 00048 ∂09-Oct-80 2200 TOB CMU
C00182 00049 ∂09-Oct-80 2219 REM via SU-TIP
C00184 00050 ∂10-Oct-80 0001 Greep at Rand-Unix Nework mailing list for seminar
C00185 00051 ∂10-Oct-80 0319 HUMAN-NETS@MIT-AI HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #100
C00209 00052 ∂10-Oct-80 1004 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) CS CLASS ENROLLMENT
C00210 00053 ∂10-Oct-80 1617 Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE> cs200
C00211 00054 ∂10-Oct-80 1742 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE arpa money
C00213 00055 ∂10-Oct-80 2012 Solomon at MIT-Multics (Richard Jay Solomon) visit next week
C00214 00056 ∂11-Oct-80 1006 JRA
C00215 00057 ∂11-Oct-80 1814 Solomon.Datanet at MIT-Multics
C00216 00058 ∂11-Oct-80 1904 100 : Ray Tayek (III or RT at MIT-AI) via RAND-TIP Operating software for the Motorola 68000
C00217 00059 ∂12-Oct-80 1500 JK
C00220 00060 ∂12-Oct-80 1611 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
C00222 00061 ∂12-Oct-80 1616 VRP via Dialnet lisp
C00224 00062 ∂12-Oct-80 1637 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
C00226 00063 ∂12-Oct-80 1638 VRP via Dialnet misunderstanding?
C00228 00064 ∂12-Oct-80 1721 VRP via Dialnet whoops
C00232 00065 ∂12-Oct-80 1855 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
C00234 00066 ∂12-Oct-80 2033 JK ekl
C00235 00067 ∂12-Oct-80 2045 VRP via Dialnet lisp @ sail
C00238 00068 ∂12-Oct-80 2110 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
C00239 00069 ∂12-Oct-80 2210 RPG non-DD lossage
C00241 00070 ∂13-Oct-80 0006 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
C00242 00071 ∂13-Oct-80 0022 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
C00247 00072 ∂13-Oct-80 0119 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
C00248 00073 ∂13-Oct-80 0200 HUMAN-NETS@MIT-AI HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #103
C00266 00074 ∂13-Oct-80 0317 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C00268 00075 ∂13-Oct-80 0343 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C00269 00076 ∂13-Oct-80 0437 POURNE@MIT-MC Your article
C00271 00077 ∂13-Oct-80 1204 Solomon at MIT-Multics (Richard Jay Solomon) tleemedicine
C00272 00078 ∂13-Oct-80 1459 Bob Moore <BMOORE at SRI-KL>
C00275 00079 ∂13-Oct-80 1623 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) CS Colloquium Schedule for Autumn Quarter
C00277 00080 ∂13-Oct-80 1848 SEK Lisp at Lots
C00278 00081 ∂13-Oct-80 1946 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
C00279 00082 ∂13-Oct-80 2008 RWW
C00281 00083 ∂14-Oct-80 0326 RPG CGOL
C00283 00084 ∂14-Oct-80 1518 Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE> title for Thursday's CS200 talk
C00284 00085 ∂14-Oct-80 1523 Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE> sorry for the nag message
C00285 00086 ∂14-Oct-80 1527 Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE> (415) 497-2274
C00288 00087 ∂14-Oct-80 2218 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
C00289 00088 ∂15-Oct-80 0809 DEK K and Q vs. K and R
C00290 00089 ∂15-Oct-80 1200 JD my talk you missed
C00291 00090 ∂15-Oct-80 1453 FFL
C00292 00091 ∂15-Oct-80 1517 FWH PV+A Seminar
C00294 00092 ∂16-Oct-80 0140 RWG at MIT-MC (Bill Gosper)
C00296 00093 ∂16-Oct-80 0840 DEK
C00297 00094 ∂16-Oct-80 1225 LGC Seminar Presentation
C00298 00095 ∂16-Oct-80 1402 Beverly.Howell at CMU-10A Robotics Institute Dedication
C00300 00096 ∂16-Oct-80 1614 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE IBM grant
C00301 00097 ∂16-Oct-80 1616 CSD.BSCOTT at SU-SCORE
C00302 00098 ∂16-Oct-80 1944 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE Computer Facilities
C00304 00099 ∂17-Oct-80 0639 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #107
C00323 00100 ∂17-Oct-80 0949 FFL CALL FROM PROFESSOR SHUBICH
C00324 00101 ∂17-Oct-80 1001 FFL
C00325 00102 ∂17-Oct-80 1313 FFL
C00326 00103 ∂17-Oct-80 1344 Marimont at SRI-KL Plans for this year
C00328 00104 ∂17-Oct-80 1410 TOB
C00329 00105 ∂17-Oct-80 1615 FFL
C00331 00106 ∂17-Oct-80 1645 RPG Pratt
C00332 00107 ∂17-Oct-80 1900 JMC*
C00333 00108 ∂20-Oct-80 1613 RPG Renaming
C00334 00109 ∂20-Oct-80 1938 DEK reminder
C00335 00110 ∂21-Oct-80 0159 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) article and voyager
C00337 00111 ∂21-Oct-80 1159 Solomon at MIT-Multics (Richard Jay Solomon) tape
C00338 00112 ∂21-Oct-80 1327 Oppen at PARC-MAXC JACM article
C00339 00113 ∂21-Oct-80 1717 RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
C00340 00114 ∂21-Oct-80 2326 RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
C00341 00115 ∂22-Oct-80 0828 CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE Tenured Faculty Meeting
C00343 00116 ∂22-Oct-80 0952 CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE
C00344 00117 ∂22-Oct-80 0958 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE meeting
C00345 00118 ∂22-Oct-80 1016 FFL
C00346 00119 ∂22-Oct-80 1043 CSD.GOLUB at SU-SCORE Re: Tenured Faculty Meeting
C00347 00120 ∂22-Oct-80 1525 FWH PV+A Seminar
C00350 00121 ∂22-Oct-80 1614 REM via SU-TIP Microfiche output
C00354 00122 ∂23-Oct-80 0332 100 : REM via SU-TIP
C00355 00123 ∂23-Oct-80 0343 POURNE@MIT-MC
C00356 00124 ∂23-Oct-80 0822 FFL
C00357 00125 ∂23-Oct-80 1400 JMC*
C00358 00126 ∂23-Oct-80 1406 FFL
C00359 00127 ∂23-Oct-80 1542 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE CIS
C00360 00128 ∂23-Oct-80 1557 CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE Tenured Faculty Meeting
C00361 00129 ∂23-Oct-80 1657 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
C00362 00130 ∂24-Oct-80 0251 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #114
C00369 00131 ∂24-Oct-80 0829 TOB Brooks
C00370 00132 ∂24-Oct-80 0855 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) REQUEST FOR ABSTRACT
C00372 00133 ∂24-Oct-80 0951 FFL
C00373 00134 ∂24-Oct-80 1508 DBL Visitor from USAF Office of Sci Research
C00375 00135 ∂25-Oct-80 0331 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C00376 00136 ∂25-Oct-80 1253 VRP via Dialnet Abstract
C00378 00137 ∂27-Oct-80 0912 JJW Disks
C00379 00138 ∂27-Oct-80 1306 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE Re: Solvency of computer facility
C00380 00139 ∂27-Oct-80 1310 CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE Tenured Faculty Meeting
C00382 00140 ∂27-Oct-80 1311 CSD.BSCOTT at SU-SCORE ARPA FUNDING
C00383 00141 ∂27-Oct-80 1458 SOL via MIT-TIP emergency project
C00384 00142 ∂27-Oct-80 1533 ADMIN.LIBRARY at SU-SCORE Fenstad's General recursion theory
C00385 00143 ∂28-Oct-80 0104 POURNE@MIT-MC
C00386 00144 ∂28-Oct-80 0110 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C00387 00145 ∂28-Oct-80 1112 Nilsson at SRI-KL Meeting
C00388 00146 ∂28-Oct-80 2255 ME on TTY77 (at TV-66) 2255
C00389 00147 ∂29-Oct-80 0019 ME new DMs
C00390 00148 ∂29-Oct-80 0806 TOB ROBOT WIREWRAPPING
C00391 00149 ∂29-Oct-80 0936 FFL
C00392 00150 ∂29-Oct-80 1333 TOB
C00394 00151 ∂29-Oct-80 1925 Pool at MIT-Multics Crisis communications
C00396 00152 ∂30-Oct-80 1039 FWH PV+A Seminar
C00398 00153 ∂30-Oct-80 1415 JMC*
C00399 00154 ∂30-Oct-80 1439 Konolige at SRI-KL (Kurt Konolige) Re: lecture in seminar
C00401 00155 ∂30-Oct-80 1533 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) Textbooks for winter
C00402 00156 ∂31-Oct-80 0046 ME imlac and the system
C00403 00157 ∂31-Oct-80 1106 FFL
C00404 00158 ∂31-Oct-80 1118 Stan at SRI-KL Knowledge & Action Seminar
C00406 00159 ∂31-Oct-80 1559 ARG
C00407 00160 ∂03-Nov-80 0038 POURNE@MIT-MC
C00408 00161 ∂03-Nov-80 1047 FFL CHAIRING A GRADUATE ORAL EXAMINATION
C00409 00162 ∂03-Nov-80 1307 Nilsson at SRI-KL Meeting
C00410 00163 ∂03-Nov-80 1326 FFL
C00411 00164 ∂03-Nov-80 1543 Nilsson at SRI-KL (Response to message)
C00412 00165 ∂03-Nov-80 1633 REM
C00413 00166 ∂03-Nov-80 2144 ROD Thesis progress
C00415 00167 ∂03-Nov-80 2355 ME two DMs ready
C00416 00168 ∂04-Nov-80 0258 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #125
C00433 00169 ∂04-Nov-80 0916 CG
C00434 00170 ∂04-Nov-80 0924 Buchanan@SUMEX-AIM (Response to message)
C00435 00171 ∂04-Nov-80 1123 Feigenbaum@SUMEX-AIM french lessons in AI
C00437 00172 ∂04-Nov-80 1122 FFL
C00438 00173 ∂04-Nov-80 1437 AAM Chess endgame
C00439 00174 ∂04-Nov-80 1859 100 : Edward Huang WPS
C00440 00175 ∂05-Nov-80 0300 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) account at SU-AI
C00441 00176 ∂05-Nov-80 0356 Randy <CSD.STRAUSS at SU-SCORE> cs206
C00445 00177 ∂05-Nov-80 0859 REM via SU-TIP
C00446 00178 ∂05-Nov-80 0941 SOL via MIT-TIP transisition
C00448 00179 ∂05-Nov-80 1258 RJT CSD Colloquium
C00449 00180 ∂05-Nov-80 1701 DEK Science yearbook
C00450 00181 ∂05-Nov-80 2200 JMC*
C00451 00182 ∂06-Nov-80 0301 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #127
C00477 00183 ∂06-Nov-80 0857 CSD.BSCOTT National Geographic Article
C00479 00184 ∂06-Nov-80 1021 FFL
C00480 00185 ∂07-Nov-80 0748 REG Next meeting of the Computer Facilities Planning Committee
C00481 00186 ∂07-Nov-80 0955 FFL
C00482 00187 ∂07-Nov-80 1004 FFL
C00483 00188 ∂07-Nov-80 1436 Nilsson at SRI-KL Book
C00486 00189 ∂07-Nov-80 1634 FFL
C00487 00190 ∂09-Nov-80 0746 DUFFEY at MIT-ML (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #130
C00502 00191 ∂09-Nov-80 2004 TOB
C00505 00192 ∂10-Nov-80 0148 MRC WAITS issues
C00510 00193 ∂10-Nov-80 0225 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #131
C00531 00194 ∂10-Nov-80 0814 CSD.BSCOTT at SU-SCORE
C00532 00195 ∂10-Nov-80 1034 TOB
C00534 00196 ∂10-Nov-80 1115 FFL
C00535 00197 ∂10-Nov-80 1153 FFL
C00536 00198 ∂10-Nov-80 1318 FWH PV+A Seminar
C00537 00199 ∂11-Nov-80 0206 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #132
C00560 00200 ∂11-Nov-80 0713 DEK special privileges
C00561 00201 ∂11-Nov-80 1145 FFL CIS MEETING
C00562 00202 ∂11-Nov-80 1455 Solomon.Datanet at MIT-Multics
C00570 00203 ∂11-Nov-80 1548 BIS
C00571 00204 ∂11-Nov-80 1815 ROB LIB.LST
C00572 00205 ∂11-Nov-80 2100 JMC*
C00573 00206 ∂12-Nov-80 0006 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C00574 00207 ∂12-Nov-80 0137 JPM Voyager NS file
C00575 00208 ∂12-Nov-80 0236 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #133
C00584 00209 ∂12-Nov-80 0911 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE Binford
C00585 00210 ∂12-Nov-80 1004 Nilsson at SRI-KL Chinese Scholar
C00587 00211 ∂12-Nov-80 1131 FFL
C00588 00212 ∂12-Nov-80 1140 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE Doug Lenat
C00590 00213 ∂12-Nov-80 1401 FFL
C00591 00214 ∂12-Nov-80 1457 FFL
C00592 00215 ∂12-Nov-80 1545 TW via SU-TIP Lenat
C00593 00216 ∂12-Nov-80 1635 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
C00594 00217 ∂13-Nov-80 0239 SEK
C00597 00218 ∂13-Nov-80 0959 FFL
C00598 00219 ∂13-Nov-80 1001 FFL
C00599 00220 ∂13-Nov-80 1002 FFL
C00600 00221 ∂13-Nov-80 1025 FFL
C00601 00222 ∂13-Nov-80 1043 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai)
C00602 00223 ∂13-Nov-80 1156 Konolige at SRI-KL seminar
C00603 00224 ∂13-Nov-80 1332 FWH PV+A Seminar
C00604 00225 ∂14-Nov-80 0331 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #135
C00611 00226 ∂14-Nov-80 0835 FFL
C00612 00227 ∂14-Nov-80 0907 Waldinger at SRI-KL abstract for seminar talk
C00614 00228 ∂14-Nov-80 0950 PAM
C00615 00229 ∂14-Nov-80 1235 LGC Seminar Abstract
C00618 00230 ∂14-Nov-80 1733 TOB
C00619 00231 ∂14-Nov-80 2124 TOB expiration of NSF
C00620 00232 ∂14-Nov-80 2154 PAM
C00621 00233 ∂15-Nov-80 0045 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C00623 00234 ∂15-Nov-80 0141 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) visit
C00624 00235 ∂15-Nov-80 0521 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
C00628 00236 ∂16-Nov-80 1359 TOB final report
C00629 00237 ∂16-Nov-80 2030 LLW Going Relativistic In A Big Way
C00637 00238 ∂16-Nov-80 2319 FORWARD at USC-ECL Relativistic milligrams
C00640 00239 ∂17-Nov-80 0112 LLW Interstellar Eigen-Packages
C00653 00240 ∂17-Nov-80 0227 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C00655 00241 ∂17-Nov-80 0233 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) you may have seen this before, but...
C00658 00242 ∂17-Nov-80 0253 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) technical books
C00661 00243 ∂17-Nov-80 0258 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
C00662 00244 ∂17-Nov-80 0954 FORWARD at USC-ECL Interstellar Beamed Power, Inc. Prospectus
C00669 00245 ∂17-Nov-80 1142 FFL
C00670 00246 ∂17-Nov-80 1300 JMC*
C00671 00247 ∂17-Nov-80 1600 Feigenbaum@SUMEX-AIM David Marr died
C00672 00248 ∂17-Nov-80 1809 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
C00673 00249 ∂17-Nov-80 1830 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky) Interstallar Master Traders
C00676 00250 ∂17-Nov-80 1900 JMC*
C00677 00251 ∂17-Nov-80 2000 JMC*
C00678 00252 ∂17-Nov-80 2138 RPG Questionairre
C00680 00253 ∂18-Nov-80 0932 Buchanan@SUMEX-AIM Re: Cheeseman
C00681 00254 ∂18-Nov-80 0946 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
C00682 00255 ∂18-Nov-80 1011 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) Final for CS206
C00683 00256 ∂18-Nov-80 1046 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE NSF equipment proposal
C00684 00257 ∂18-Nov-80 1053 Shostak at SRI-F2 (Robert Shostak) About Woody Bledsoe
C00688 00258 ∂18-Nov-80 1131 CSD.LENAT at SU-SCORE Re: Cheeseman
C00690 00259 ∂18-Nov-80 2007 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
C00691 00260 ∂19-Nov-80 1329 ME CE FOO.>
C00692 00261 ∂19-Nov-80 1530 DBL survey
C00693 00262 ∂19-Nov-80 1549 FWH PV+A Seminar
C00695 00263 ∂20-Nov-80 0229 POURNE@MIT-MC Upcoming article and stuff on NASA
C00697 00264 ∂20-Nov-80 0943 FFL
C00698 00265 ∂20-Nov-80 0944 FFL
C00699 00266 ∂20-Nov-80 0946 FFL
C00700 00267 ∂20-Nov-80 1315 FFL
C00701 00268 ∂20-Nov-80 1319 FFL
C00702 00269 ∂20-Nov-80 1649 FFL insurance on Mazda
C00703 00270 ∂20-Nov-80 1707 Boyer at SRI-F2 (Bob Boyer) Proofs
C00704 00271 ∂20-Nov-80 1716 Imsss@SUMEX-AIM
C00706 00272 ∂21-Nov-80 0155 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C00707 00273 ∂22-Nov-80 0147 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) odear
C00708 00274 ∂22-Nov-80 1154 FORWARD at USC-ECL Joules per bit
C00711 00275 ∂22-Nov-80 1406 John A. Pershing Jr. <JPERSHING at BBNA> This looks too good to be true, but...
C00712 00276 ∂22-Nov-80 1516 Nilsson at SRI-KL Permission letters
C00721 00277 ∂22-Nov-80 2009 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
C00727 00278 ∂23-Nov-80 1328 JK dm upgrade
C00728 00279 ∂23-Nov-80 1512 Marimont at SRI-KL Humble request for an academic favor
C00737 00280 ∂23-Nov-80 2034 LLW Only Attoergs Per Bit!
C00739 00281 ∂23-Nov-80 2044 LLW The Free University's Power Bill
C00741 00282 ∂23-Nov-80 2232 POURNE@MIT-MC curiouser..
C00747 00283 ∂23-Nov-80 2309 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C00748 00284 ∂24-Nov-80 0000 JMC*
C00749 00285 ∂24-Nov-80 0153 RWG at MIT-MC (Bill Gosper)
C00751 00286 ∂24-Nov-80 0331 ES at MIT-MC (Gene Salamin)
C00753 00287 ∂24-Nov-80 0346 ES at MIT-MC (Gene Salamin)
C00754 00288 ∂24-Nov-80 0936 MINSKY at MIT-AI (Marvin Minsky)
C00756 00289 ∂24-Nov-80 1156 Bmoore at SRI-KL SRI/Stanford Interaction
C00763 00290 ∂24-Nov-80 1325 FFL
C00764 00291 ∂24-Nov-80 1335 FFL
C00765 00292 ∂24-Nov-80 1852 BIS
C00766 00293 ∂24-Nov-80 2111 HANS.MORAVEC at CMU-10A ergs per dead horse
C00768 00294 ∂24-Nov-80 2307 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) here's your chance
C00770 00295 ∂24-Nov-80 2340 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) mail to bboard
C00771 00296 ∂24-Nov-80 2348 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) Languages, etc..
C00773 00297 ∂25-Nov-80 0024 LLW Die Untergang Des IBM-Landes
C00778 00298 ∂25-Nov-80 0206 OTA
C00780 00299 ∂25-Nov-80 0732 JRA more quixote-ism
C00781 00300 ∂25-Nov-80 0816 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky) low-energy fusion
C00784 00301 ∂25-Nov-80 1023 CSD.BSCOTT at SU-SCORE
C00785 00302 ∂25-Nov-80 1452 Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE> CS226 in winter
C00787 00303 ∂25-Nov-80 1550 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
C00788 00304 ∂25-Nov-80 1700 OTA SPACE Digest
C00791 00305 ∂25-Nov-80 2004 LWE NS tape
C00792 00306 ∂25-Nov-80 2011 LWE help (again...)
C00794 00307 ∂26-Nov-80 0055 RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
C00795 00308 ∂26-Nov-80 0130 LLW How Cool Is Your Fusion Cold Plate?
C00800 00309 ∂26-Nov-80 1000 JMC*
C00801 00310 ∂26-Nov-80 1059 FFL
C00802 00311 ∂26-Nov-80 1722 FWH PV+A Seminar
C00805 00312 ∂27-Nov-80 0103 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) co-generation etc
C00808 00313 ∂27-Nov-80 1151 HANS.MORAVEC at CMU-10A storage, communication and ergs
C00811 00314 ∂27-Nov-80 1247 JAK via AMES-TIP Sequence extrapolation
C00813 00315 ∂27-Nov-80 2108 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
C00820 00316 ∂27-Nov-80 2150 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) Foreign Legions and downloaders.
C00823 00317 ∂28-Nov-80 0149 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C00825 00318 ∂28-Nov-80 0200 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C00827 00319 ∂28-Nov-80 0444 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #149
C00829 00320 ∂28-Nov-80 1308 RPG CF Committee
C00830 00321 ∂28-Nov-80 1504 CSD.SCHREIBER at SU-SCORE [CSD.SCHREIBER: Comp ctte. first meeting]
C00832 00322 ∂28-Nov-80 1641 LWE digest.ns reduction
C00834 00323 ∂28-Nov-80 1826 VRP via Dialnet Pournelle
C00835 00324 ∂28-Nov-80 1917 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
C00838 00325 ∂28-Nov-80 2236 RWG at MIT-MC (Bill Gosper)
C00839 00326 ∂29-Nov-80 0234 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas) 2nd Law etc.
C00843 00327 ∂29-Nov-80 0449 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #150
C00860 00328 ∂29-Nov-80 0500 OTA SPACE Digest
C00861 00329 ∂29-Nov-80 0538 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas) robots
C00865 00330 Date: 29 Nov 1980 at 1119-CST
C00871 00331 ∂29-Nov-80 1828 HITCHCOCK at CCA (Chip Hitchcock) 2nd law etc.
C00874 00332 ∂29-Nov-80 2012 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas) 2nd Law (OF THERMODYNAMICS!) etc.
C00878 00333 ∂29-Nov-80 2116 Robert Elton Maas <REM at MIT-MC> 2nd law etc.
C00882 00334 ∂30-Nov-80 0030 LLW Information, Insulation, Etc.
C00892 00335 ∂30-Nov-80 0210 POURNE@MIT-MC net conferencing
C00897 00336 ∂01-Dec-80 1115 FFL
C00898 00337 ∂01-Dec-80 1144 REG Another meeting
C00899 00338 ∂01-Dec-80 1334 CSD.BERLIN at SU-SCORE Course Evaluations
C00901 00339 ∂01-Dec-80 1400 JMC*
C00902 00340 ∂01-Dec-80 1400 JMC*
C00903 00341 ∂01-Dec-80 1633 SOL via MIT-TIP crisis communicatons
C00904 00342 ∂02-Dec-80 0126 Jim McGrath <JPM at SU-AI> Nuclear Health Hazards
C00907 00343 ∂02-Dec-80 0355 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #153
C00913 00344 ∂02-Dec-80 0503 david at UTEXAS-11 Nuclear plant energy cost
C00916 00345 ∂02-Dec-80 1052 Kanerva@SUMEX-AIM DEC's offer
C00918 00346 ∂02-Dec-80 1129 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE IBM funds
C00920 00347 ∂02-Dec-80 1134 FFL
C00921 00348 ∂02-Dec-80 1602 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) Colloq. Winter Quarter
C00922 00349 ∂02-Dec-80 2135 RWG at MIT-MC (Bill Gosper)
C00928 00350 ∂03-Dec-80 0156 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C00929 00351 ∂03-Dec-80 0911 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) Fifth Floor
C00932 00352 ∂03-Dec-80 1131 RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
C00933 00353 ∂03-Dec-80 1211 RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
C00934 00354 ∂03-Dec-80 1737 RMS@MIT-AI
C00935 00355 ∂03-Dec-80 1751 JPM
C00936 00356 ∂03-Dec-80 2221 RPG LISP at Stanford
C00938 00357 ∂04-Dec-80 1015 FFL
C00939 00358 ∂04-Dec-80 1300 JMC*
C00940 00359 ∂04-Dec-80 1334 Bob Moore <BMOORE at SRI-KL>
C00941 00360 ∂04-Dec-80 1335 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE Baskett
C00942 00361 ∂05-Dec-80 1307 CSD.SCHREIBER at SU-SCORE First meeting.
C00943 00362 ∂05-Dec-80 1825 FWH PV+A Seminar
C00944 00363 ∂05-Dec-80 1846 REM
C00945 00364 ∂06-Dec-80 0143 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
C00946 00365 ∂06-Dec-80 1515 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
C00948 00366 ∂07-Dec-80 0617 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
C00949 00367 ∂07-Dec-80 1122 BYY logout for barwise
C00950 00368 ∂07-Dec-80 1159 BYY kill 13
C00951 00369 ∂07-Dec-80 1409 BYY I see from login that I have a message from
C00952 00370 ∂07-Dec-80 2029 PAM
C00953 00371 ∂07-Dec-80 2104 Solomon at MIT-Multics (Richard Jay Solomon) picture
C00954 00372 ∂07-Dec-80 2105 Solomon at MIT-Multics (Richard Jay Solomon) crisis communications
C00972 00373 ∂07-Dec-80 2214 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) Turn off electric lamps when not needed
C00974 00374 ∂07-Dec-80 2225 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) SPS automatic aiming
C00976 00375 ∂07-Dec-80 2231 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) plastic bags
C00977 00376 ∂08-Dec-80 0024 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C00980 00377 ∂08-Dec-80 0130 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C00981 00378 ∂08-Dec-80 0140 POURNE@MIT-MC randoms
C00983 00379 ∂08-Dec-80 0310 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas) Nuclear power plants vs. Nader's overreactors
C00986 00380 ∂08-Dec-80 1841 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
C00989 00381 ∂09-Dec-80 0200 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) Lending the Boss a Helping Hand...
C00994 00382 ∂09-Dec-80 0523 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #160
C01019 00383 ∂09-Dec-80 0809 FFL
C01020 00384 ∂09-Dec-80 0931 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
C01021 00385 ∂09-Dec-80 1625 FFL
C01022 00386 ∂10-Dec-80 1402 FFL
C01023 00387 ∂10-Dec-80 1423 FFL
C01024 00388 ∂10-Dec-80 1451 FFL
C01025 00389 ∂11-Dec-80 0141 POURNE@MIT-MC we talked about this before
C01031 00390 ∂11-Dec-80 0401 OTA SPACE Digest
C01037 00391 ∂11-Dec-80 0536 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS AM Digest V2 #164
C01049 00392 ∂11-Dec-80 0855 FFL
C01050 00393 ∂11-Dec-80 0936 Janofsky.Tipi at RADC-Multics EVERYTHING You Ever Wanted To Know About Solar
C01055 00394 ∂11-Dec-80 1100 JMC*
C01056 00395 ∂11-Dec-80 1627 TOB reference for Brooks
C01057 00396 ∂12-Dec-80 0051 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C01064 00397 ∂12-Dec-80 1448 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE RA salaries
C01066 00398 ∂12-Dec-80 1655 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
C01067 00399 ∂12-Dec-80 1953 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE SPO
C01068 00400 ∂12-Dec-80 2148 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) holocaust
C01070 00401 ∂12-Dec-80 2302 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) White house information system
C01072 00402 ∂13-Dec-80 0604 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
C01073 00403 ∂13-Dec-80 0947 david at UTEXAS-11 (David M. Phillips) References to Solar Technology for Houses
C01078 00404 ∂13-Dec-80 0949 FWH PV+A Seminar
C01080 00405 ∂13-Dec-80 1515 Pool at MIT-Multics Crisis communication
C01081 00406 ∂14-Dec-80 0006 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) helping the boss
C01086 00407 ∂14-Dec-80 0025 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C01087 00408 ∂14-Dec-80 1419 ME E fix
C01088 00409 ∂14-Dec-80 1630 HEDRICK at RUTGERS extended addressing
C01100 00410 ∂15-Dec-80 1532 CSD.SCHREIBER at SU-SCORE Meeting
C01101 00411 ∂15-Dec-80 1645 FFL
C01102 00412 ∂16-Dec-80 0414 JC Computer usage
C01103 00413 ∂16-Dec-80 1135 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) Faculty Meeting Jan. 6
C01104 00414 ∂16-Dec-80 1306 JMC*
C01105 00415 ∂16-Dec-80 1600 Tony Lee Hansen <CSD.HANSEN at SU-SCORE> lisp
C01107 00416 ∂16-Dec-80 1734 FWH Special Seminar
C01109 00417 ∂17-Dec-80 1235 FFL
C01110 00418 ∂17-Dec-80 1245 Buchanan@SUMEX-AIM D.Lenat's reappointmt
C01113 00419 ∂17-Dec-80 1510 DEIGAN FIRE ESCAPE
C01115 00420 ∂17-Dec-80 2212 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) HELPING THE BOSS
C01121 00421 ∂18-Dec-80 1118 STEF at DARCOM-KA Re: HELPING THE BOSS
C01123 00422 ∂18-Dec-80 1239 CSD.SCHREIBER at SU-SCORE Comp Ctte Meetings
C01125 00423 ∂19-Dec-80 0124 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C01126 00424 ∂19-Dec-80 0700 Randy <CSD.STRAUSS at SU-SCORE> 206 final project
C01127 00425 ∂19-Dec-80 0916 FFL
C01128 00426 ∂19-Dec-80 1558 Nilsson at SRI-KL Tie-cheng Wang
C01130 00427 ∂19-Dec-80 1951 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas) TMI (DAVID%UTEXAS and JMC%SU-AI)
C01133 00428 ∂19-Dec-80 1951 Lauren at UCLA-ATS (Lauren Weinstein) TMI
C01135 00429 ∂19-Dec-80 1954 Randy <CSD.STRAUSS at SU-SCORE> thanks
C01136 00430 ∂20-Dec-80 0141 RMS My mail
C01137 00431 ∂20-Dec-80 0323 SEK
C01141 00432 ∂20-Dec-80 1653 BYY maclisp and basic
C01142 00433 ∂20-Dec-80 1653 BYY maclisp and basic
C01144 00434 ∂20-Dec-80 2340 TVR
C01146 00435 ∂21-Dec-80 1308 OAF at MIT-MC (Oded Anoaf Feingold)
C01150 00436 ∂21-Dec-80 1515 SOL via MIT-TIP ithiel
C01151 00437 ∂22-Dec-80 0754 Paul Horwitz at BBN Who Pays for Three Mile Island?
C01154 00438 ∂22-Dec-80 1015 RAK via SU-TIP TV commercial
C01155 00439 ∂22-Dec-80 1025 FB via PARC-MAXC Vax(en)
C01156 00440 ∂22-Dec-80 1155 FFL
C01157 00441 ∂22-Dec-80 1845 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas) Who Pays for Three Mile Island?
C01161 00442 ∂23-Dec-80 0106 POURNE@MIT-MC Upcoming conference
C01165 00443 ∂23-Dec-80 0109 POURNE@MIT-MC BOY can I get myself in trouble...
C01168 00444 ∂23-Dec-80 0120 Boyer at SRI-VIS11 (Bob Boyer) Inverting Permutations
C01169 00445 ∂23-Dec-80 0140 Boyer at SRI-VIS11 (Bob Boyer) Inverting Permuations
C01171 00446 ∂23-Dec-80 0821 Baskett.PA at PARC-MAXC Sail chat
C01173 00447 ∂23-Dec-80 0927 FORWARD at USC-ECL Lewis Advanced Space Propulsion Award
C01175 00448 ∂31-Dec-80 2359 CSD.BSCOTT at SU-SCORE ARPA Moneys
C01177 00449 ∂01-Jan-81 0011 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
C01180 00450 ∂01-Jan-81 0008 Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE> Office mates
C01182 00451 ∂31-Dec-80 2357 david at UTEXAS-11 Study Says A-Power Has Gotten $40 Billion in U.S. Subsidies
C01185 00452 ∂01-Jan-81 0017 Schauble.Multics at MIT-Multics Long term projects????
C01192 00453 ∂01-Jan-81 0017 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
C01193 00454 ∂01-Jan-81 0026 CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE Faculty Meeting Agenda
C01194 ENDMK
C⊗;
∂02-Oct-80 1317 Mark Crispin <Admin.MRC at SU-SCORE>
Date: 2 Oct 1980 1311-PDT
From: Mark Crispin <Admin.MRC at SU-SCORE>
Postal-Address: 12155 Edgecliff Place; Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Stanford-Phone: (415) 497-1407
To: VRP at SU-AI, LES at SU-AI, JMC at SU-AI, FB at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 1-Oct-80 1238-PDT
Vaughan -
Congratulations on getting your Dialnet implementation
working. It is heartening to know that there is finally somebody
for my efforts to talk to! What do you think of the feasibility
of bringing up a Dialnet process on Diablo using the SAIL link
(we'd make SAIL's end a DLN port as well)?
Sho 'nuff, broken DLE doubling would cause the link to hang.
I had always intended that somebody else who understood the
system would read the protocol document carefully and point out
where it was unclear or lying, but nobody ever did. I'd
appreciate hearing where you think the document is unclear.
The mail server intentionally tried to be simple. As I
remember I wrote it in a single night. The FTP user and server
programs got archived onto WAITS backup tape; I've put in a
pumpkin request for the files to be restored. You realize of
course that mail messages themselves are unstructured strings;
it's just the mail protocol itself that is structured. It seemed
to make little sense to try to structure human text only to
destructure it again.
About your redundant packets; is your implementation
retransmitting packets which have already been acknowledged? In
other words, what is your implementation's action when it wants
to transmit a periodic packet and there aren't any unacknowledged
packets to retransmit? WAITS' implementation makes a
minimal-sized no-op packet and sends that. You have a much
higher number of redundant packets than sequence errors, so it
sounds like an implementation bug. Sequence errors approximately
correspond to the number of line errors, although usually there
is a multiplication factor of the window size -1 or close to it;
e.g. a window size of three usually means that every line error
will cause two sequence errors before the protocol manages to
back up and retransmit the garbaged packet. Higher window sizes
may or may not lose more, depending on how long it takes for the
error to be detected and reported to the other end (this is where
NAKs come in handy).
-- Mark --
-------
∂03-Oct-80 0123 LWE tape export inquiry
To: REG
CC: JMC
I am accumulating a file of text (NS), with the help of John McCarthy,
which I would like to copy to tape for export to our DEC-20 (at the
University of Chicago). I would appreciate help/advice on
how this might best be accomplished (JMC thought you might have some
suggestions on the subject). ??? (Thank you)
∂03-Oct-80 0132 LWE
A rather late response to your message of 9/22...
Thanks for advice re tape export etc (see cc of mail to REG).
Debate reactions were interesting to follow, especially how fast
consensus developed among newsmen that nobody "won" (because
neither goofed -- a zero-gaffe game/death watch). Cute tactical
situation too: Anderson trying to make Reagan look bad and
Reagan trying to make Anderson look good. Won't know how much of
this will be picked up by machine analysis until we get
transcript of debate readied.
Campaign is becoming a matter of state-by-state strategy (electoral
rather than popular vote) due to "Anderson effect" (whom will he hurt
more in which state, etc.). How is Carter's media blitz in California
doing (it seems like a far-out tactic from here).
I don't watch TV, so I've missed it. The Reagan strategy of turning
away wrath with soft answers has almost neutralized several very
liberal columnists, e.g. Tom Wicker and Mary McGrory, who can't resist
attacking Carter, even though they'll almost certainly end up
supporting him. There are still almost no bumper stickers out here,
except for Anderson's, and while I, a registered Republican, have
received much Republican direct mail, and no Democratic. Both sides
concentrate on turning out their supporters in ways that run as little
risk as possible of exciting the opponents enough to vote.
∂03-Oct-80 0318 HUMAN-NETS@MIT-AI HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #93
Date: 3 OCT 1980 0608-EDT
From: HUMAN-NETS@MIT-AI
Sent-by: DUFFEY at MIT-ML
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #93
To: (@FILE [DSK:AIRAN;DUFFEY HNTXX6]) at MIT-ML
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Friday, 3 Oct 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 93
Today's Topics:
Electronic Banking - Auto-teller security, Electronic Mail - Mailgrams
WORLDnet - 2-way Cable, Computers and the Deaf - Speech Synthesis
& TDD Design & CA PUC Recommendations,
Telephone Services - Phone Fraud & GenTel vs PacTel & Phone Books
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 30 SEP 1980 1059-EDT
From: HEROT at CCA (Christopher Herot)
Subject: big brother
I heard (somewhere) that the one-way mirror in an ATM contained
a still camera which took your picture when you used the machine.
These pictures would then be used if you claimed that someone else
had used your card to withdraw money. The assumption is that most
such claims are fraudulent and would be hard to press if a photograph
could be produced.
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 1980 1033-PDT
From: ROODE at SRI-KL (David Roode)
Subject: mailgrams via your own computer
Radio Shack started selling software to have your TRS-80 (model I,
I believe) interact with WU computers to send mailgrams. I don't
know if the $25 minimum applies. There are at least 2 competing
services to Mailgrams. One is called Datapost and The Source has
an arrangement with them to send messages from their system. The
minimum charge is about $2.50, which I sort of understand. What I
cannot understand is why they increase the charge for additional
volume to the tune of something like $1 per 300 characters. It
seems this should be much lower if you are sending the message
without interacting with one of their human operators.
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 1980 0312-PDT (Thursday)
From: Lauren at UCLA-SECURITY (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: playcable/votrax
The "Playcable" test site designated as "a west coast metro area" is
West Los Angeles (what a coincidence, where I live!) However, like
most silver linings, this one has a cloud attached. I first found
out about this system, which will use the Mattel "Intellivision" toy
(oops, excuse me, I mean HOME) computers, about a year and a half ago.
I immediatly contacted the cable company involved, which currently
holds the franchise for the area involved, 95% of which has NOT YET
BEEN CABLED. In fact, the company is apparently being investigated
by the SEC for various "unusual" aspects in their operation. There
is some question as to whether they will ever get most of the system
built. There are also questions involving the lack of meaningful
competitive bidding for the franchise. Anyway, I called them up way
back, and learned that they considered the Playcable stuff to be just
a toy, and were really uninterested in anything more elaborate, even
when I pointed out the many much more useful and MONEY-MAKING ideas
which could use the same technology. The Playcable system will just
have a "few" simple computer games, exactly the same as you could buy
in ROM for the Mattel unit, which will circulate on one channel at a
very low baud rate. If you pay for the Mattel unit (you must rent
it) then you can hook in and download particular programs for your
enjoyment. BUT, that is all they plan for the system, PERIOD. And
the technology being used will apparently be extremely bandwidth
limited. Oh well.
-----
I am glad to hear that Votrax is loosening up a bit. In fact, a
number of people whom I prodded into calling have been getting
calls back from Federal Screw announcing this "change" in policy.
I like to think that the INFO-MICRO and HUMAN-NETS campaigns
helped a bit!
--Lauren--
------------------------------
Date: 2 October 1980 2130-edt
From: Paul Schauble <Schauble.Multics at MIT-Multics>
Subject: Votrax chip
I wonder if this could be used as part of a voice storage system.
Does anyone know of a chip or board that can take voice in real
time and extract the information that you would have to feed to
the Vortrax chip to regenerate the same (almost) speech???
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 80 10:12-EDT
From: clj at DNGC
Subject: Terminals for the deaf
Two comments on the recent discussion of Ca. Deaf program.
1) The Plantronics Vuphone will send ASCII (but not with 103 tones)
rather it sends using Weitchbrect tones) My source for this was
at Plantronics.
2) The Ca deaf plan requires telephone companies to provide terminals
to the Deaf by 1984. But the FCC, in a final order (still subject
to reconsideration and appeal) in docket 20828 (Computer Inquiry
II) has ordered Pacific Telephone to get out of the terminal
business by 1982. Hmm Sounds like catch 22 for the DEAF program.
Regards
Chuck
PS The PUC's choice of Baudot and opposition to ASCII fits well with
the general level of PUC action. Have HUMAN-NETS readers noticed
that California writers on HUMAN-NETS tend to flame a lot about
the phone company. They're right California has the worst phone
service this side of Cairo (Egypt). But the villian is probably
not the phone cos -- rather it's the PUC. The same people who
believe that ASCII is too advanced are the people who tell the
phone company how to run itself.
------------------------------
Date: 02 OCT 1980 1004-EDT
From: DEE at CCA (Don Eastlake)
Subject: collect, third-party, credit-card calls
They seem to get along fairly well in Europe without most of these
fraud prone procedures. Since essentially all calling from all
Western European nations is measured with the time interval you get
for each payment quanta decreasing with distance, you can call any-
place for at least a few seconds from a payphone which is generally
enough to find out if the person you want is there and to give them
your number to call back. (As I recall, you can talk to anyplace in
North America for around 10 seconds from England for 5 new pence.)
Actually, I guess all that really eliminates is collect. Third party
and credit cards really are a somewhat different idea. One possible
solution to that is to eliminate third party and hair up the credit
card check system a lot. It used to be trivial to figure out how the
check letter was determined and I think that is still true with the
check number now used. Now at least they seem to be leaving enough
space for a decent code and with the declining cost of hardware, it
seems like no trouble to supply all toll operators with a "pocket
calculator" like device to calculate a really complex verification
code. While that obviously would not eliminate all fraud, a lot of
it now is clearly amateur hackers.
(PS: people might be interested to know that in Japan pay phones
are not normally tied down in any way. They have counter-top
payphones with sturdy enough cash boxes but just a thin wire
travling off to the phone system. Anyone could just cut the
wire, pick one up, and carry it away. But then the Japanese
are notoriously law abiding.)
------------------------------
Date: 28 September 1980 2152-EDT (Sunday)
From: Jeffrey.Lomicka at CMU-10A (C621JL12)
Subject: Quality of Phone Service
Catching up on old news, I noticed that someone mentioned GenTel
service in the west is poor. After my experience with General
Telephone of Indiana, I would DEFINITLY consider it in choosing
where I live. GTE has a reputation of cheap fragile terminal
equipment (thats phones, not keyboards), and for constantly
getting the wrong destination. The bad service complicates the
problem of cheap terminal equipment, since one is more tempted
to kick it when it doesn't behave. There is an independent
company in Linden, IN that used to have their long distance
lines go to GTE in Lafayette; service was so poor that they
switched to Bell in Indianapolis, twice as far away. (If you
frequently call someone at Purdue University, there is a very
good chance the call will be completed incorrectly.)
------------------------------
LLOYD@MIT-AI 09/19/80 07:07:41 Re: Pac-tel vs. Gen-tel
I hail from California and I can verify the difference between
Pac-tel and Gen-tel.
I was in California about three weeks ago and I noticed that (on
a Gen-tel system) I was dialing long distance calls THREE TIMES
(average) before getting a connect.
Also, Gen-tel lines are generally unsuitable for data transmission.
Two years ago, a customer was tying into a PDP-11/70 remotely (using
a BELL 103) and had to give up. Gen-tel eventually had to install a
forign exchange line to eliminate the problem.
Yes indeed, when a person in the LA area goes to sell his/her house,
which "phone district" you are in can make a difference. Lauren: I
don't care if Gen-tel appears to be more responsive. I would rather
have a system that works but has unresponsive employees than a system
that doesn't but has nice people.
Brian Lloyd
------------------------------
Date: 19 SEP 1980 0656-PDT
From: BHUBER at USC-ECL
Subject: GTC and Phone Books
I just cannot resist putting in my two cents worth on General
Telephone of California (GTC) phone [un]service. GTC service
is every bit as bad as one can imagine. Just yesterday, a very
typical example, I had three long distance calls and two local
calls to make prior to going to work. Two of the LD and 1 local
calls were dropped in mid-conversation. This hasn't happened
yet this morning, but then I have not made any voice calls yet!
I personally know of two businesses which were located here in
the Long Beach area which moved simply because of the telephone
service. I simply have given up on trying to improve the
situation. GTC has become my Achilles heel.
Regarding phone books, not all yellow/white pages editions are
produced by TPCs. My listing in the Long Beach directory was to
have been only my name and phone number, a no-charge option in GTC
service area. After installation of my phones in August 1979, it
took an additional three months to get the 411 operator to cease
providing my address as well (oh, that wonderful GTC). Assuming
that all was well by early 1980, I was shocked to find a "Wide
Area White and Yellow" pages phone book delivered to my door in
July 1980 with my address included. GTC swore up and down that
that edition was produced by a commercial concern and supported
by the local business community to promote their enterprises.
It turns out that commercial companies can and do publish very
'phone company-ish looking' telephone books, but they get their
information directly (in automated form) from TPC. I have not
been able to find out whether TPCs receive $ when they provide
this information. I finally had the PUC and a private lawyer
engaged to straighten out this mess. The distressing epilogue
to this story is that I still don't know for sure that GTC won't
screw things up again in the future. Based on experience to date,
the odds are against me.....
Bud
------------------------------
Date: 30 SEP 1980 1059-EDT
From: HEROT at CCA (Christopher Herot)
Subject: phone books
On the subject of phone books - I have always found TPC's partitioning
to be obnoxious, although in all fairness, South Boston, East Boston,
and the North End (of Boston) are all in the central Boston directory,
since they are all part of the same city.
The Paris, France phone book is available in (at least) two volumes,
one organized by name and one by address. I noticed that people will
try the address book first, since addresses are less likely to change
and/or be misspelled.
I also remember hearing that some Scandinavian country (Sweden?) had
started charging for phone books but made calls to information free.
The assumption was that with a computerized system available to the
operators, it would be cheaper than printing phone books. Maybe New
England Telephone could learn a thing or two, especially for a
student-infested area where people move at least once a year.
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 1980 0312-PDT (Thursday)
From: Lauren at UCLA-SECURITY (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: phone books
Isn't it amusing that at the same time more and more phone books
become required to accomplish anything useful, there is a greater
and greater push to CHARGING for directory assistance? How long
do you think it will be before the telcos announce that it has
become necessary to charge for phone books?
--Lauren--
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 1980 1004-MDT
From: THOMAS at UTAH-20 (Spencer W. Thomas)
It is typical, in my experience, that small rural or suburban areas
have their own (small) telephone books. Some are tiny enough that
they are published in tabloid (Reader's Digest) size, rather than
full size. In addition, these local directories are usually divided
into multiple subsections, one for each small town. Trying to figure
out which 'town' a rural friend lives in can be very trying at times.
-Spencer
------------------------------
Date: 2 October 1980 13:16 edt
From: Janofsky.Tipi at RADC-Multics
Subject: Trivia on YELLOW PAGES and TELEX
Just a couple of minor pieces of info:
The Yellow Pages in this area (suburbs outside Boston metro region)
are so badly fragmented that the local businesses have published their
own phone book - it covers about a ten town region where the New Eng.
Tel. book covers something like three at a time. The book has both
white and yellow page sections just like the phone co (TPC?) used to
have for the area. So now we leave NET's book in a forgotten corner.
But the poor small business has to advertise in several 'official'
yellow pages and a privately printed version. THIS IS PROGRESS?
Also, on the TELEX discussion, International TELEX is handled
separately from domestic; even to the point of separate companies and
separate switching computers (at least in the case of Western Union
- and I think in the case of RCA). Western Union International, Inc.
and RCA Global Comm, INC are separate corporations handling off-shore
traffic. This was done at the request?? of the FCC; however I
suspect a strong connection between parent and offspring.
Bill J.
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂03-Oct-80 0703 JRA lisp
john,
i just started teaching a "functional programming" class at santa clara --
lisp, scheme, logic, and perhaps some logic programming. i am constantly
amazed at the power of lisp.
∂03-Oct-80 0809 JRA lisp
john,
it occurs to me that stanford has lots of people learning lisp, all of
whom have to compete for time of various campus 10/20's. would powers that
be consider using collections of micros to support this lisp-learning phase.
(t .(l . c)) has a nice lisp running on z-80's. could you suggest someone i
could talk with about this?
john
It seems to me that Stanford would rightly not consider getting special
hardware for teaching LISP. It is rather episodic, and space and
maintenance would be expensive. We have so far resisted the idea
of using microcomputers even for Pascal. The one possibility is that
if the department goes in for Pascal on microcomputers, LISP might
be done on the same. To pursue this possibility, talk to Ralph Gorin,
who is pursuing the possibilities of using microcomputers on the
instructions of Gerald Lieberman, Associate Provost for Research,
who is also the administrator to whom LOTS reports,
but I should tell you that I am unlikely to favor it.
∂03-Oct-80 0859 VRP via Dialnet Diablo<-Dialnet->Sail
To: MRC at SU-AI, ROB at SU-AI, JMC at SU-AI, LES at SU-AI
I like MRC's suggestion of using dialnet as the protocol for sail and
diablo to talk over the 1200-baud sail<->diablo link. Mark, what
is required to set up dialnet at the sail end to accomplish this?
(The relevant tty is tty27 if you need to experiment.)
∂03-Oct-80 1000 JMC*
pat thurs
∂03-Oct-80 1058 Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE> CS200 schedule
Date: 3 Oct 1980 1054-PDT
From: Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE>
Subject: CS200 schedule
To: jmc at SU-AI, buchanan at SUMEX-AIM
I haven't heard from either of you yet. Because of my prejudices, I'd
like to get at least one of you on early in the quarter. I have 10/9
(next Thursday) as my immediate problem. I also have the following
Thursday, 10/16, open. Please respond quickly especially if the answer
is no, and I'll get somebody else for the early dates.
-Denny
-------
∂03-Oct-80 1143 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Asmond Shuoeke, a reporter from Montreal, who is writing on Computers and
People, would like to speak with you. He asks that you call him collect
at 5l4 843 7744.
∂03-Oct-80 1229 Mark Crispin <Admin.MRC at SU-SCORE> Re: Diablo<-Dialnet->Sail
Date: 3 Oct 1980 1228-PDT
From: Mark Crispin <Admin.MRC at SU-SCORE>
Postal-Address: 12155 Edgecliff Place; Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Stanford-Phone: (415) 497-1407
Subject: Re: Diablo<-Dialnet->Sail
To: VRP at SU-AI, MRC at SU-AI, ROB at SU-AI, JMC at SU-AI, LES at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 3-Oct-80 0859-PDT
DVaughn -
All you have to do is to decide at some point that you want the link
to be Dialnet, and it will be Dialnet. Changes to the operating system
(which can be patched in) are required, so I'd appreciate not switching
back and forth a lot...
-------
∂03-Oct-80 1259 ARG
John - I'm looking for a third person for my reading committee and am wondering
if you might be interested. My thesis will be designing and implementing
a good interactive manipulator programming environment, i.e. building up the
next generation of AL. PROPOS.AL[1,arg] contains a brief write up of my
plans. My committee so far consists of Tom Binford (advisor) and John
Hennessy. I'ld appreciate it if you could take a look at my thesis proposal
and let me know if you'ld be willing to be my third reader.
thanks, Ron Goldman
∂03-Oct-80 1445 RPG
To: CLT, JMC
What are some references to the Samefringe problem?
∂04-Oct-80 0201 HUMAN-NETS@MIT-AI HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #94
Date: 4 OCT 1980 0449-EDT
From: HUMAN-NETS@MIT-AI
Sent-by: DUFFEY at MIT-ML
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #94
To: (@FILE [DSK:AIRAN;DUFFEY HNTXX6]) at MIT-ML
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Saturday, 4 Oct 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 94
Today's Topics: Communicating via Network - Teleconferencing,
Computers and the Deaf - Speech Synthesis,
Telephone Services - Phone Fraud & GenTel vs. PacTel
& Phone Books, Terminal Design - CRT's and Eyestrain
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 80 09:00-EDT
From: ljs at DNGC
Subject: Teleconferencing (windowed screen)
Our Deafnet here in Washington, DC is one of very good systems which
enables the deaf users to talk (type) to each other whether it is two
parties or many parties. Since its beginning, we have been using the
"LINK" command to connect among us (logged-in users) to each other
whether it is two parties or many parties, to discuss together imme-
diately and quickly. Last May the Board members of the Telecommuni-
cations for the Deaf, Inc., tried the experiment of teleconference
for our Board meeting. Ten directors at ten different terminal sites
were talking and reading each other's messages. We had developed the
teleconferencing protocols to be sure every user have the manner as
well as designing the parlimentary procedures to insure the proper
process of the Board Meeting by the telephone.
Unfortunately, some of our Directors are not Deafnet lovers yet and
the teleconferencing method has not been used since. In near future,
we are looking to revive this method as an effort to keep the travel
expenses to the Board meeting to the minimum (using MCI, Telenet, or
ARPAnet will cost us only few pennies ) and will save our country's
gasoline supply).
P.S. This Deafnet system enables us having teleconferences without
calling the telephone operator up and verbally to set up the
teleconference connections for us at higher costs.
If interested to get the teleconferencing guidelines Deafnet,
just send me your boxname and I will forward it within few
days. My boxname is "ljs at dngc" or "LJS@DNGC"
Louis J. Schwarz
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1980 0336-PDT (Friday)
From: Lauren at UCLA-SECURITY (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: LPC/VOTRAX
The votrax is unsuitable for "pure" voice reconstruction based on a
"real" spoken voice. However, there are LPC units which work in real
time and can pretty well simulate the original speaker with a pretty
low bit rate. One such system uses the TI Speak and Spell chip. The
equipment to rip apart the speech in real time is rather expensive...
--Lauren--
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1980 1614-PDT
From: Billy <BRACKENRIDGE at USC-ISIB>
Subject: Device to produce Votrax input
There is no automatic system to take speech and produce an output
that could be used as input to a Votrax synthesizer. The Votrax
takes a phoneme string as input. ARPA, IBM and Japan Inc. have all
spent millions on speech understanding. As yet there is no system
that can put out a good enough phoneme string to run a Votrax style
synthesizer.
The Votrax system takes the phoneme string and converts it into a
set of formants which a formant synthesizer turns into speech. This
is similar to systems developed by Dennis Klatt of MIT & Gunnar Fant
of Upsula Sweden.
The system used by the Texas Instruments Speak & Spell (really John
Markel with help from ARPA) uses what are called LPC or vocal tract
area function parameters as input to the synthesis device.
I won't go into detailed differences between formant and LPC
synthesis, however, LPC analysis is far simpler than formant
analysis. (analysis is the process of producing parameters from
the input speech, ie the opposite of synthesis). Formant synthesis
has been traditionally used in text to speech systems. Recently
text to speech systems have been developed using LPC synthesis. I
expect the quality of these systems will surpass the formant style
systems.
LPC analysis and synthesis is presently used here and at several
other sites on the ARPANET and SATNET for a voice conferencing
system. A voice message system was also developed using CCA as
a storage facility for voice messages.
If you would like to build a real time system to produce input
suitable to the TI Speak & Spell chip here is how to do it: For
about $40,000 you can buy a Floating Point systems signal processor
and an 11/23. (Texas Instruments has lots of money so they use a
VAX) If you need help with the software Signal Technology Inc of
Santa Barbara Calif. can get you up and running in no time...
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1980 0336-PDT (Friday)
From: Lauren at UCLA-SECURITY (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: GTE/PUC
The best way to calculate the expected quality of telephone service
is to try learn the AGE of the central office equipment in use. Until
recently, almost all GTE equipment was very, very old. The primary
problem is that when Bell wired up Southern California, they avoided
the sparse rural areas -- like Santa Monica, West Los Angeles, Bel
Air... areas that underwent massive growth very suddenly in later
years. GenTel could not keep up; they did not have the resources
of Bell to draw on for financing capital equipment. Anyway, while
overall service level of GenTel is atrocious (I have lived in their
service area for over 10 years), they are rapidly replacing the
antiquated step-by-step equipment with current ESS (they call it
EAX) equipment. This new equipment seems to be excellent. In
fact, a little known fact is that GenTel sometimes installs Bell
ESS equipment and Bell sometimes buys GTE EAX equipment! And
nobody notices the difference on either side. Within about five
years, when 95% of the area is EAX, I expect service levels to
be vastly improved. By the way, if you ever want to try BAD phone
service, try CONTINENTAL telephone, the number THREE phone company
in the country. Try to make a call in Las Vegas sometime...
In many states it seems that the PUC is "in the pocket" of the phone
company. This is decidedly not the case in California. Our pay phone
calls are still 10 cents. Pacific telephone has been authorized to
start charging for directory assistance, with something like TWENTY
free calls/month. Contrast this to other areas where they get THREE
for free. San Francisco and Los Angeles have the lowest flat rates of
anywhere in the country, and have decently sized free dialing areas
(population-wise) compared with many other metro areas. Oh yeah, the
PUC does some real dumb things sometimes, but at least they do not
rubberstamp everything the phone company proposes. In fact, it seems
that every other time telco asks for a rate increase, the PUC orders
a refund instead.
Most metro area operators now check credit card numbers against an
online system (voice response) which knows all the valid numbers.
The old key letter systems seem to have fallen into disuse, as well
they should have. (This information courtesy of a friend who is an
operator and deals with such calls daily.)
--Lauren--
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1980 0925-PDT
From: the tty of Geoffrey S. Goodfellow <GEOFF at SRI-KA>
Subject: CLJ's message.
CLJ is quite correct about Californias phone service, and I hereby
nominate Palm Springs as the area worst served (by GenTel in this
case).
When I visited Palm Springs last year, you had to commonly dial
a number 2 or 3 times just to reach your neighbor next door! The
real fun part was, (and its better than you think!), is that for
the touch tone phones, it converted the tones into dial pulses as
you dialed. However, it would do the exact same thing for numbers
you dialed from a dial phone as well!!! (i.e. you could here it
re-dialing your dialing in the background!), hence it took twice
as long to dial ANY number.
The people I visited at the time said that they had written a letter
to the president of GTE saying, that in the future, he (the father)
would never, ever locate an office of his multi-million dollar busi-
ness in any area that was served by GenTel because the service was so
bad. I suggested two possible approaches to solving the poor quality
of GTE service in Palm Springs:
(1) The Conservative Approach: Have all of the millionaires in
Palm Springs chip in a Million or so and buy out GTE and
then put in their own phone system (Palm Springs Telephone
Co-Op or some such Tel Co.), or
(2) use the Radical Approach: Find out where the GTE building
is in Palm Springs, and blow it up, therefore requiring GTE
to replace all their equipment (and listen, they couldn't
replace it with anything worse than they have now!).
As for CLJ's comment on the California PUC, Yes, it really makes us
wonder what the "P" really stands for in "PUC". Is it really PUBLIC
or is it PACIFIC?
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1980 17:42 PDT
From: Frisbie.EOS at PARC-MAXC
Subject: General Telephone
An echo of Lloyd's comment on your "phone district" making a
difference in selling your house:
When I lived near NASA-Houston in 1971, three phone company
boundaries came together there: Gen-Tel, Ma Bell, and Continental.
It was a toll call simply to cross the street between NASA and
where most people lived. Apartment houses and real estate brokers
would advertise that an apartment or house was "NOT in the General
Telephone area!"
As for performance, I used to make calls from Sierra Madre, CA
(Gen-Tel) to Santa Monica, CA (Also Gen-Tel), a distance of about
30 miles. I would spend 5 seconds punching the number only to
wait 45 seconds from the last digit to the first ring. This was
consistant within 2 or 3 seconds and is still true as far as I
know.
When I went to Houston (Ma Bell), I could call the same number in
the same manner and wait only 15 seconds from last digit to first
ring. 30 miles in 45 seconds vs. 1600 miles in 15 seconds does not
make much sense.
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1980 09:16 PDT
From: Orr at PARC-MAXC
On the subject of telephone books: I used to live in and around
Ithaca, New York. NYTEL's Ithaca phone book covered all the
small towns within about 40 miles, including a couple of non-Bell
exchanges. While living in West Dryden, about 10 miles northeast,
the phone company was Chenango, a non-Bell; their service was OK
and they provided both their phone book and the NYTEL Ithaca book.
This is, of course, a relatively sparsely populated region, and
personal friends tended to be scattered over two or three phone
companies. Perhaps it's remarkable these days when phone
companies in particular and major corporations in general aren't
as bloody-minded as they could be.
Julian
------------------------------
Date: Friday, 3 October 1980 09:48-EDT
From: John A. Pershing <JPERSHING at BBNA>
Subject: Phone Books
To answer Lauren, it will probably be two years until the Telcos
announce charges for phone books -- one year to push through
charging for directory assistance, and one more year to push
through the charges for the book.
-jp
------------------------------
Date: 3 Oct 1980 1705-PDT
From: FYLSTRA at SRI-KL (David Jon Fylstra)
Subject: Effects of CRTs on operators
from MANAGEMENT INFORMATION SYSTEMS WEEK, July 16, 1980:
Report: VDT Operators More Anxious, Irritable by Anne Dukes
ATLANTA -- Operators of video display terminals (VDTs) with cathode
ray tube components have, on the average, higher levels of anxiety,
irritability and other forms of psychological distress than the
general population, according to a report released here last week,
by the U.S. Center for Disease Control (CDC).
In a study conducted by the center's Cincinnati bureau, the National
Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, four researchers found
that operators of VDTs have experienced visual, muscular and skeletal
problems as a result of working wth the machines during most of their
work hours. However, the CDC report said the VDTs pose no radiation
or chemical hazards.
According to John Stammerjohn, an industrial engineer on the research
team, the study was conducted at the request of the Communications
Workers of America, the Newspaper Guild, the Office and Professional
Employees International Union and the Typographical Workers Union.
It was made at four locations in the San Francisco area: Blue Shield
of California and three newspapers, the Oakland Tribune, San Francisco
Chronicle and San Francisco Examiner.
The Occupational Safety Institute has been involved in evaluating
VDTs, primarily for radiation hazards, since 1975. In its report,
the CDC said VDTs emit radiation levels "below the standard set by
the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA). To date,
six studies of VDT radiation in the workplace have been conducted
"and no radiation hazards have been found," the report said.
The recent study focused on other health risks among users of VDTs
at the four sites, and included a questionnaire survey of more than
500 VDT operators, mainly reporters, copy editors, classified
advertising personnel and typesetters at the newspapers, as well as
clerical personnel, such as data entry clerks and claims examiners,
at the insurance company.
STUDY'S FINDINGS
The result of the study indicated:
. Higher levels of psychological distress, such as anxiety and
irritability, among VDT operators, when compared to control
groups at all four sites.
. Significantly higher levels of visual and musculoskeletal
complaints in VDT operators at Blue Shield, but not at the
newspapers.
. High levels of job stress in the VDT operators at Blue Shield
but not at the newspapers.
. Problems with glare from the VDT screen, improper screen and
keyboard heights, and poorly designed tables and chairs.
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂04-Oct-80 0940 CLT
To: RPG, JMC
∂03-Oct-80 1445 RPG
To: CLT, JMC
What are some references to the Samefringe problem?
McCarthy, J.
"Another SAMEFRINGE"
SIGART Newsletter + No. 61(February 1977)
p. 4.
The Boyer,Moore book may have something, as they have exercised their prover
on the problem. Also one of the following B&D papers may have something as
one of their examples somewhere is to generation a samefringe program.
[Burstall, Darlington 1976]
Burstall, R.M. and Darlington, J.,
A System which Automatically Improves Programs,
Acta Informatica 6 (1976)
pp. 41-60.
[Burstall, Darlington 1977]
Burstall, R.M. and Darlington, J.,
A Transformation System for Developing Recursive Programs,
JACM 24 (1977)
pp. 44-67.
Thats all I can think of.
∂04-Oct-80 1000 JMC*
math library
∂05-Oct-80 0108 LWE tape export/ftp-score/dumper exemption
To: REG
CC: JMC
Thank you for FTP/SU-SCORE/Arpanet advice re tape export inquiry.
Have perused on-line Network documentation and think I know how to
go about it--except: (1) how do I arrange for user account @ score?
and (2) how best to arrange for depositing courier tape there (who)?
Relevant pointers will be muchly appreciated (no details needed, will
pursue appropriate leads/references).
Until file transfer to Score for copying to tape is accomplished
(presumably within the next two weeks), I ask that my 2 files @ SU-AI
which are currently just a tad above quota (125/120) be spared from
the imminent strike of the PURGER; I shall delete and purge the files
as soon as transfer is completed successfully (to start accumulating
anew thereafter). Let me know if there is anything I can do to assist
or expedite. Thanks again...
∂05-Oct-80 0916 Allen.Newell at CMU-10A Re: von Neumann
Date: 5 October 1980 1214-EDT (Sunday)
From: Allen.Newell at CMU-10A
To: John McCarthy <JMC at SU-AI>
Subject: Re: von Neumann
CC: Herb.Simon at CMU-10A
In-Reply-To: John McCarthy's message of 5 Oct 80 03:20-EST
Message-Id: <05Oct80 121423 AN02@CMU-10A>
John: I hardly knew von Neumann personally. The only conversations I
ever had with him were at Princeton before I left for Rand. I don't
think he ever even knew of LT's existence. If you read the chronology
in the front of his Computer and the Brain, you will see that his
cancer took hold in Aug 55, almost 4 months before we had our first
progress on LT. He entered the hospital terminally in April 56,
months before the Sep IT symposium.
Von Neumann did think about chess machines (as did Wiener, as you no
doubt know -- see the funny little appendix in Cybernetics). Herb
heard him give a lecture on it (at Rand, I believe), I know, which is
why I'm CCing this and will forward your message to Herb.
On general symbolic computation, I know of nothing, either by von
Neuman or by Wiener. If you recall, during that era the feature that
was mostly focussed on as the key to the computer's power was the
ability to have stored programs. This is yet one more othogonal view,
but it doesn't imply anything about symbols or symbolic computing in
its surface structure.
I'd enjoy seeing your review -- and don't look at the NYT
automatically.
AN
∂05-Oct-80 1019 REG
To: LWE
CC: JMC
There is no operations staff. You had better send me the tape and
I'll do what's necessary to get it back to you.
Ralph Gorin
I suspect you have got yourself into a trap. We don't have
need for an operations staff, or even one full time operations person.
However, occasional operational chores need to be someone's job other
than the manager's. Although you may fear that they will regard it
as "beneath them", you should bite the bullet and explicitly include
such chores in the jobs of maintenance people (ROB, ROY or DC),
programming (ME or MRC), your tape occasional tape dumper, or your
secretary. Otherwise you will be tempted to create a position.
∂06-Oct-80 0111 RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
Date: 6 OCT 1980 0409-EDT
From: RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
To: JMC at MIT-AI
3. You are missing the fact that both Reiter and McDermott-Doyle
treat defaults as axioms, i.e. originating form the programmer,
whereas circumscription is a rule the program can decide to apply
at any time, i.e. it can generate defaults.
In McDermott-Doyle non-monotonic logic, an axiom of the form
A => (x) (M¬B(x) => ¬B(x))
is effectively equivalent to "circumscribe B whenever situation A comes
up". Any rule to tell the program to circumscribe B under some
circumstances ought to be expressable in this form.
Since Reiter's defaults also allow a condition to be attached, they
can deal with this also.
So it seems that both formalisms can handle this sort of thing, though
perhaps they predispose or are intended toward other modes of use.
Do you agree?
I guess I agree that it tends or perhaps tries to say the same thing. I
doubt that it comes to the same in their fixed point interpretation.
Also, the action of circumscribing certain sentences under certain
conditions might be built into a program rather than expressed as
a rule, although I naturally prefer expressing as much as possible
in the form of rules. I fear we need more extensive examples before
we can get much more out of general meta considerations.
∂06-Oct-80 1112 FFL SEMINAR ON "KNOWLEDGE"
To: JMC, FFL
Konolige of SRI wishes to know if the seminar is given for credit and
if so, what is its number.
∂06-Oct-80 1409 ME slowness of substitution
∂06-Oct-80 0048 JMC
I'm a bit surprised at the slowness of string substitution
in E. In order to count words, I had it subsitute space for space
in a 110 line text. It took 11 seconds to do 889 subsitutions.
A search for a character not present took only ten ticks.
ME - Well, first, the best way to count occurrences of a string (like
space here) is simply to search for an infinity of them, e.g.,
α∞αF<space><cr>. Secondly, indeed doing 889 substitutions does take
a while because of all the free storage handling and shuffling that
goes on, and because of the setup for the search which is redone after
each substitution.
∂06-Oct-80 1433 Bob Moore <BMOORE at SRI-KL> thesis reference
Date: 6 Oct 1980 1420-PDT
From: Bob Moore <BMOORE at SRI-KL>
Subject: thesis reference
To: ffl at SU-AI
cc: jmc at SU-AI
My thesis will be coming out as:
Reasoning about Knowledge and Action, SRI Artificial Intelligence Center
Technical Note 191, SRI International, Menlo Park, California (1980).
-------
∂06-Oct-80 2218 CLT terminal stand
no need to bring the one from home, as one has magically appeared in the office.
[no doubt due to super-ralph]
∂07-Oct-80 0127 AAM CS 204 problems
I put a copy of the problems in your mailbox. If you want to read them right
now, you can look at HAND1.TEX[204,AAM].
Allan
∂07-Oct-80 1213 Waldinger at SRI-KL seminar
Date: 7 Oct 1980 1209-PDT
From: Waldinger at SRI-KL
Subject: seminar
To: jmc at SAIL
i'd like to attend the seminar on knowledge and action but i
won't be able to make the organizational meeting. also i
am willing to give a talk on two weeks notice (on action, not
knowledge)
richard
-------
∂07-Oct-80 1500 FFL
To: ROB, JMC, FFL
Have you had success in retrieving LIB.LST for John McCarthy. He
is uneasily awaiting its resurrection. Any possible date set? Fran
∂07-Oct-80 1600 JMC*
call 321-3471 about reservations for Barber of Seville.
Boxoffice hours are Tues. thru Sat. 11-3
∂07-Oct-80 2013 Bob Moore <BMOORE at SRI-KL> Re: seminar on knowledge and action
Date: 7 Oct 1980 1655-PDT
From: Bob Moore <BMOORE at SRI-KL>
Subject: Re: seminar on knowledge and action
To: JMC at SU-AI
cc: BMOORE at SRI-KL
In-Reply-To: Your message of 6-Oct-80 1820-PDT
John,
I would be willing to talk at the next meeting. Since you want it to
be technical, I will explain how the formalisms for knowledge and action
are integrated in my system.
Bob
-------
Thanks. That will presumably be on the 16th.
∂08-Oct-80 0210 LWE tape export
To: REG
CC: JMC
Thank you very much for your offer of help. Will mail tape
to you later this week (and will be forever in your debt
thereafter). Please give mailing address if not
c/o Computing Center @ SU.
That address might well lose you a tape. The correct address is Computer
Science Department, Stanford CA 94305. I trust that you will pay the
reasonable bill that I hope Ralph will send you, and therefore will not be
forever in debt.
∂08-Oct-80 0225 LWE
To: JMC
CC: REG
Reference to debt was no attempt to evade paying the dues (please
send bill and I'll get NORC purchase order to cover). Will remain
in your and REG's debt for all the help I have received!!!!
∂08-Oct-80 0837 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) TA for 206
Date: 8 Oct 1980 0835-PDT
From: CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai)
Subject: TA for 206
To: SEK at SU-AI
cc: JMC at SU-AI
Scott, you have been appointed half time TA for CS206. We consider
it a half time job, unless the enrollment is less than 30 students.
Please check with me if you have any questions.
Carolyn
-------
∂08-Oct-80 0842 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Mrs. Janke (7l4 452 3624), media contact for Sigma Xi, is very anxious to
have you available for interview with science writers before the conference.
She phoned to ask if she might give tod these reporters a time when it is
convenient for them to contact you for telephone interview. I am to call her
back with your suggestions. She feels they will be particularly interested
in interviewing you and that it would be better if it could be done before the
meeting.
∂08-Oct-80 1230 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE NSF proposal/ Inst. for CS
Date: 8 Oct 1980 1154-PDT
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Subject: NSF proposal/ Inst. for CS
To: CSD-Faculty: ;
1. My current plans regarding proposals for equipment center around
a request to NSF for $150K to partially pay for a (new model) VAX
and additional storage capacity on SCORE. For this proposal, we need
about 5 mini-proposals, describing research that could use the new equipment.
Especially important are projects that need the VAX, UNIX, etc., but
we can use comments to the effect that you simply plan to expand your
operations and need more space. The proposal should have the form of
an NSF proposal, i.e., description of background, research in progress,
future plans, and literature survey, but the proposal can be shorter than
if it were stand-alone, i.e., about 5 pages should suffice.
Do I hear any volunteers??
2. I have been notified by Bill McKeeman that he intends to move the
Institute for Computer Science, his operations that runs summer courses
at Santa Cruz, to Stanford this summer. He is negotiating with the
university directly for facilities, and does not propose any formal
connection with the department. However, since there would be an apparent
connection in the eyes of the outside world, he has rightfully asked
our blessing to proceed.
How say you??
-------
∂08-Oct-80 1246 SEK Lisp at LOTS
Is being revised and run off again, will be ready for tomorrow's class.
∂08-Oct-80 1933 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Date: 8 OCT 1980 2227-EDT
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
To: JMC at SU-AI
CC: ENERGY at MIT-MC, NATURAL-DISASTERS at MIT-MC
Reagan said that Mt St. Helens probably put out more sulfur dioxide this
year than all our autos do in 10 years. That's red herring since autos
don't put out significant amounts of sulfur dioxide, power plants (fossil
solar fuels: coal and not-desulfurized petrolium). The total manmade
sulfur dioxide released into the air, mostly from power plants, is about
70 times as much in one year as Mt. St. Helens did this year, and since
it is mostly in industrial areas rather than eastern Oregon, and it
goes on year after year rather than just one year out of a hundred,
it's far wose than that. Reagan is a cretin.
Reagan also said that nitrates released naturally into the air
from decaying organic matter in the smokey mountains is reccommended
for helping people with tuberculosis. Apparantly this is a total
figment of his imagination. Will he base his presidency on this
type of misconceptions that he doesn't bother to check with experts
before he blurts them out or worse acts upon them?
My info from CBS news. Rebuttal welcome if it's from an expert who
really knows the truth according to current scientific knowledge.
I dunno about any of those things. I have become resigned to the
fact that Reagan goes off half cocked unduly often. It's not bad
if its just in speeches, but it could be bad if, as President, he
got stubborn about one of his bad ideas. He doesn't now seem to be
a stubborn person - unlike Carter. I hope he has a good
science adviser. It should be possible to figure out what he reads
or from whom he gets these ideas.
∂09-Oct-80 0303 POURNE@MIT-MC freedom
From: POURNE@MIT-MC
Date: 10/09/80 05:54:12
Subject: freedom
POURNE@MIT-MC 10/09/80 05:54:12 Re: freedom
To: JMC at MIT-MC
Your essay urgently required. Fawcett wants manuscript. I am
doing my parts now. No more than 6 days to go before deadline.
If you cannot get it done, please tell me, but prefer essay to
message saying you can't do it.
Love and plenty kisses,
Jerry
∂09-Oct-80 0346 HUMAN-NETS@MIT-AI HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #99
Date: 9 OCT 1980 0626-EDT
From: HUMAN-NETS@MIT-AI
Sent-by: DUFFEY at MIT-ML
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #99
To: (@FILE [DSK:AIRAN;DUFFEY HNTXX6]) at MIT-ML
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Thursday, 9 Oct 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 99
Today's Topics:
Telephone System - Videophone Query & Area Codes,
Telephone Services-Phone Books & DIAL-IT, Home Info Retrieval-WU FYI,
Automation - Dealing with its Impact, Call for Papers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 5 Oct 1980 (Sunday) 1350-EDT
From: WESTFW at WHARTON (William Westfield)
Subject: Whatever happened to video phones ?
This is slightly related to the current disscussion, since a video
phone whould give a deaf person about as close to "equal access"
as he/she is likely to get. I have always assumed that the demise
of the promised videophone was due to a lack of sufficiently cheap
technology, eg high bandwidth communications lines, cameras and TV
screens. However, I have also heard that Bell discovered that people
didn't want to be seen by the persons they were talking to. Does
anyone have any further info on any of this ?
Bill W (westfw@wharton)
------------------------------
Date: 8 Oct 1980 1528-PDT
From: Roode at DARCOM-KA (David Roode)
Subject: 70 "special code" and paying for Telephone books
The blurb that PT&T sent out with bills this months does not say
whether the city code you dial after "70" is the same as the city
code for calling within Mexico. The old method (for those parts
that had direct dial before) also had city codes. Why didn't they
do it this way from the start? Is either method using the same
city codes as Mexico's internal phone system? Anybody know if
Ensenada is 39, 339, 67 or 667? How about Tijuana--38, 338, 68
or 668? Mazatlan-- 78 or 678?
In re the charging for phone books to people who provide their own
terminal equipment. Ask to speak to the office manager. Tell him
you think this violates the FCC's sentiment in requiring terminal
equipment to be provided by a separate subsidiary of the operating
company. Tell him you don't think directories are terminal equipment.
Ask who he reports to, and request this person's phone number. Would
he be willing to put this in writing so that you can forward a copy
to the FCC? See what happens. Let us know!
------------------------------
Date: 8 Oct 1980 23:00:31-PDT
From: ihuxi!agk at Berkeley
Subject: National sports phone number in service (900)
This may be old hat to some, but it is the first I have heard
of it. It is the first use of the 900 DIAL-IT service. This
has been extracted from an in-house newspaper.
National sports phone number in service
DIAL-IT National Sports, a new telephone sports information
service, was introduced nationally by the Bell System Sept. 24.
Customers can now hear up-to-the-minute national and international
sports scores and results by dialing 900-976-1313.
Callers from anyplace in the United States, including Alaska
and Hawaii, can dial the number and get sports highlights. Each
call costs 50 cents.
The one-minute report presents scores that are updated as
frequently as every 15 minutes each evening and on weekends.
During weekdays, callers can hear scores plus a wide variety of
features about teams, players, coaches, and the world-wide sports
scene. Weekday segments are updated every half hour.
DIAL-IT national sports is being offered through a new "900"
network, served by No. 4 ESS offices in Los Angeles, Denver, Chicago,
Philadelphia, Newark, Atlanta and Dallas. Thousands of callers can
dial these "900" numbers simultaneously.
The new "900" numbers also make possible another DIAL-IT mass
calling service called Media Simulated Calling (MSC). This will
permit mass telephone response to product or market research, or
even national straw polls. For example, a TV network or newspaper
could conduct a call-in poll to pick the most valuable player in
each of the world series games. These MSC calls also will cost
50 cents each.
--Andy Kegel, Bell Labs, Naperville, IL
P.S. Please pardon any typos -- I didn't bother to check for
too many.
------------------------------
DLW@MIT-AI 10/08/80 17:34:19 Re: Western Union FYI serivce
Western Union is offering an interesting service to TWX and Telex
users, called "FYI News Reports". It was mentioned briefly on 5 May
by RAHE at USC-ECL in HNT V1 #75 (Thanks, Roger!) but it's relevant
to the present discussion and to HUMAN-NETS in general. To quote
from their blurb:
Western Union FYI News (TM) reports are convenient, dependable
sources of current information readily available via your
Telex/TWX (R) terminal. You can dial up reports yourself at
any time at low Telex/TWX usage changes. Or for just pennies
more, subscribe to FYI and have the reports of your choice
automatically delivered at specified times.
You use it by dialing up some numbers (Telex 8513 or TWX 710-988-5956
(East), TWX 910-221--2115 (Chicago and West). Then after pausing
for answerbacks, you type a command ("the desired news category"),
or CATALOG for a list of all categories. The categories they mention
here (probably all the ones currently implemented) are NEWS, CONGRESS,
SPORTS, WEATHER, MARKET, STOCK QUOTE, FINANCE, LIVESTOCK, AGRICULTURE,
METAL, and SUGAR. MARKET is stock market commentary and averages,
updated on the hour. STOCK QUOTE works by your typing STOCK followed
by the symbol for the stock, and you get the latest price and volume,
aged at least 15 minutes (can't allow randoms to compete with real
brokers). It doesn't say whose news service NEWS gives you. CONGRESS
is U.S. Chamber of Commerce reports on legislation affecting business.
Most of the others are for relevant prices and futures. WEATHER is
for 20 cities, but there is also a METRO which is New York City
weather only. It is pretty clear who this service is catering to.
I didn't find out the pricing, since they didn't give a phone number
as you might expect); anyone who has access could try talking to
Telex 10-4737 or TWX 710-988-5390 and finding out the rates. These
are the numbers if you want to subscribe, although I should point
out that the above message is for informational purposes only and
does not constitute an advertisement for Western Union, nor does
it constitute any other commerical usage of the Arpanet. I hope.
------------------------------
Date: 5 Oct 1980 0944-PDT
From: the tty of Geoffrey S. Goodfellow <GEOFF at SRI-KA>,
David Roode <ROODE at SRI-KL>
Subject: Electronic Technology Impact Study.
Study Says Electronic Technology Will Upset the Job Market Worldwide
By WARREN E. LEARY AP Science Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) - New electronic technology will end millions of
jobs worldwide and cause sweeping changes in almost every industry,
but the impact upon employment will be worse in countries that are
slow to embrace the computerized revolution, according to a study
released Saturday.
The Worldwatch Institute study said that by the late 1980s the
electronics industry will rival the automobile, steel and chemical
industries in sales and economic importance.
"The economic and social impact of microelectronics will extend
well beyond the confines of the industry itself," said Colin Norman,
author of the study by the private, non-profit research group.
"No technology in history has had such a broad range of potential
applications in the workplace," Norman said in an interview.
The industry is based on the ability to put thousands of
electronic components and circuits on silicon chips smaller than a
dime. This has slashed the size and cost of electronic equipment
and computers.
And these chips, or microprocessors, are found in products as
diverse as digital watches, pocket calculators, sewing machines,
cars and industrial robots, with more uses to come.
Although the United States is unquestionably the world leader
in this technology, Japan is moving to the forefront in some areas
and European governments are beginning to stimulate their electronic
industries, the report said.
Governments see that they have little choice but to support
their high technology industries in the competitive world economy,
but little has been done to counter potential negative effects,
Norman said.
He said microelectronics, with its promise of greater efficiency
and productivity, would create jobs in industries that deal in
electronic goods and services, such as computer manufacturing and
programming.
But jobs will be lost in industries that switch from mechanical
processes and goods to new ones based upon electronics, which have
fewer moving parts and are easier to assemble. This also applies to
white-collar jobs, he added, such as those affected by computerized
office equipment.
"Most studies seem to indicate that over the long term, job losses
will be greater than those created," Norman said.
Norman said that job losses could be balanced by new jobs only if
economic growth were high and major industries expanding.
However, high energy prices, inflation, low rates of productivity,
and growing protectionism in international markets make it unlikely
that the post-World War II boom will return, he said.
"Virtually every recent study of world economic prospects
has concluded that the global economy faces a period of slow
and uncertain growth," Norman said.
Many great changes in technology have been greeted with fears of
massive unemployment that were proved unfounded, but there is good
reason to take seriously recent concerns about microelectronics, he
said.
To deal with the problems of microprocessors, governments have
to address problems such as unemployment and job retraining for
displaced workers, he said. It also may be time to seriously consider
alternative work schedules so that people can share remaining jobs.
"Proposals to reduce the number of work hours through shorter
work weeks, longer vacations, sabbaticals and similar steps should
now be firmly on the political agenda," Norman said.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Oct 1980 1612-PDT
From: Brian K. Reid <CSL.BKR at SU-SCORE>
Subject: Call for papers
CALL FOR PAPERS
ACM SIGPLAN-SIGOA
SYMPOSIUM ON TEXT MANIPULATION
←←←←←←←←
JUNE 8-10, 1981
PORTLAND, OREGON
This symposium will deal with the variety of tools, techniques, and
programs that have been developed for creating and manipulating text,
whether natural language text or programming language text. The
emphasis is to be on ideas that can be generalized beyond the context
in which they were originally developed. Suggested topics include,
but are not limited to:
- String manipulation languages
- Text Editors
- Editing environments for particular programming languages
- Text formatting programs and pretty-printers
- The linguistics of text, i.e. formal structure of textual material
- Typesetting and document formatting languages
- Interactive systems for document layout
- Techniques for particular applications, e.g. mathematics,
literature indices, newspaper publication
- Treatment of special problems, e.g. hyphenation, character set
limitations, graphics in text
- Practical algorithms for text searching, comparison, etc.
Papers describing systems that have been in use for some time, but
have not been presented in the open literature, are particularly
encouraged. Presentations of commercially available systems are
welcome as long as the techniques on which these systems are based
can be presented openly. Any proprietary restrictions on these
techniques must accompany the paper, and will be considered in
evaluating the suitability of the paper for the symposium.
Rules
- Authors must submit full papers. The paper may be revised or
expanded for publication in the symposium proceedings if it is
accepted.
- The submitted paper must contain its title on the first page,
but no indication of its authorship.
- Acknowledgements and other identifying information should be
omitted from the submitted paper.
- The name and address of the author should appear in a cover
letter to the chairman. (This information will be withheld
from the rest of the committee during the selection process).
- Proprietary restrictions should be stated in an attachment to
the paper itself.
- The final paper will be limited to ten pages of model paper,
which is approximately 25 double-spaced typed pages. Papers
exceeding this limit may receive less careful scrutiny than
the work merits.
Seven copies of each submitted paper must be received by the
conference chairman no later than December 5, 1980. The papers
to bepresented at the symposium will be selected by the program
committee, and authors will be notified of acceptance or rejection
of their papers by February 13, 1981. The full text of each accepted
paper must be typed on model paper and received by the conference
chairman by March 27, 1981. Authors of accepted papers will be
expected to sign a copyright release form.
Proceedings will be distributed at the symposium and will subsequently
be available for purchase from ACM. The members of the program
committee are:
Russell Abbott Brian Kernighan
Charles Geschke James King
David Hanson Brian Reid
Paul Abrahams, Chairman
Submitted papers should be sent to the conference chairman:
Paul Abrahams
ACM Symposium on Text Manipulation
P.O. Box 161
Deerfield MA 01342
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂09-Oct-80 0926 CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE Bibliographies
Date: 9 Oct 1980 0926-PDT
From: CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE
Subject: Bibliographies
To: csl.fb at SU-SCORE, or.dantzig at SU-SCORE, csl.m at SU-SCORE,
csd.gill at SU-SCORE, csd.herriot at SU-SCORE, csl.lantz at SU-SCORE,
csd.mccarthy at SU-SCORE, csd.schreiber at SU-SCORE, csl.da.wvc at SU-SCORE,
csd.winograd at SU-SCORE, csl.bkr at SU-SCORE
cc: csd.ullman at SU-SCORE
uTo remind you that Jeff needs your vitae, bibliography, and a statement of a
few hundred words on your current research activities in this office as soon as
possible! Please send the appropriate file name to me (csd.jeanie) or send
a hardcopy to 214 MJH.
Jeanie
-------
∂09-Oct-80 1003 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Dr. Gibbons' office called to say there was no CIS meeting today, in case
you had been planning on attending.
Please tell Dr. Gibbons' office that I haven't been receiving notices of
CIS meetings and supposed that I had been dropped from the committee.
When I accepted membership, I said I couldn't serve till Fall.
∂09-Oct-80 1008 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
You can have a reservation to San Diego on Friday, but you must leave at
8:25 a.m., changing planes in Los Angeles, arriving San Diego at ll:22 a.m.
There are only 3 seats left so I need to know if you want to go that early
as quickly as possible.
∂09-Oct-80 1052 KATSUKI at BBND Hello from Dave Cipolle (to John Craig, if not you)
Date: 9 Oct 1980 1347-EDT
From: KATSUKI at BBND
Subject: Hello from Dave Cipolle (to John Craig, if not you)
To: JMC at SU-AI
hi john. write me your new address. Im still in arlington, mass.
davwe cipolle
-------
There is John J. Craig a Phd student called JJC and a Computer Science -
Computer Engineering student John Craig called JRD.
∂09-Oct-80 1137 ROB LIB.LST
To: FFL
CC: JMC
∂07-Oct-80 1500 FFL
To: ROB, JMC, FFL
Have you had success in retrieving LIB.LST for John McCarthy. He
is uneasily awaiting its resurrection. Any possible date set? Fran
--------------------
I tried restoring the tape that Patte indicated, but the tape drive finds
that tape to be indigestible. I will look for another version of same.
(Now waiting is even more uneasy, right?) Fear not.
- Rob
∂09-Oct-80 1231 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE Binford, Tarjan cases
Date: 9 Oct 1980 1228-PDT
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Subject: Binford, Tarjan cases
To: jmc at SU-AI, rwf at SU-AI
I spoke with Jim Rosse yesterday, and he encourages us to get the
two cases to him as fast as possible. Do I assume correctly that
you are each working on one of these?
-------
I was waiting hear from you that Dantzig and Golub had assented.
You might have someone send me copies of the long green forms.
∂09-Oct-80 1243 TW
∂28-Sep-80 1834 JMC
Congratulations, but are you sure such late toilet training is advisable?
Evidence so far indicates that the number I gave will last only two
months. --t
∂09-Oct-80 1515 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Date: 9 Oct 1980 1514-PDT
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
To: JMC at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 9-Oct-80 1339-PDT
I have messaged Dantzig and heard nothing. Golub assents, although there
is a detail that he expressed the wish that we had considered Dahlquist
for such a position. I have, in fact raised that issue with the deans,
and we may be able to do something for him. So, you can put Golub down as
in favor.
-------
∂09-Oct-80 2200 TOB CMU
Hans Moravec is a principal technical person in
a CMU project for an underwater vehicle with an
arm funded initially for $300k by ONR, and
expected to be $2M.
∂09-Oct-80 2219 REM via SU-TIP
To: JMC, JPM
Ronnie is partly right, but he has so many misconceptions that I get the
feeling that when he sometimes says something that is half right it's only
because he was guessing and happened to fall on the right answer by luck.
He's probably right about oxides of nitrogen, but wrong about most of
the other stuff he said. He doesn't seem to know the difference between
truth and falsehood. As long as it sounds right, he says it.
-- On another subject, Ronnie would try hard to institute a theocracy
if elected, at least that's my impression from the debate. Anderson
on the other hand would maintain and enhance separation between church
and state, allowing the divese religions and non-religions to exist
even if his personal religion opposes their beliefs and non-beliefs.
I don't think Reagan "would try to institute a theocracy". He does
seem to be a bit fuzzy about scientific matters, however.
I'm not even sure that the Rev. Falwell would, although I'm sure
he would try to legislate some of his morality that I don't agree
with. By theocracy I mean as in Puritan New England.
∂10-Oct-80 0001 Greep at Rand-Unix Nework mailing list for seminar
From: Greep at Rand-Unix
Date: 10 Oct 1980 at 0000-PDT
To: JMC at Su-Ai
Subject: Nework mailing list for seminar
Please add me (greep@Rand-Unix) to the network mailing list for your
seminar. Thanks. - Steven Tepper
∂10-Oct-80 0319 HUMAN-NETS@MIT-AI HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #100
Date: 10 OCT 1980 0609-EDT
From: HUMAN-NETS@MIT-AI
Sent-by: DUFFEY at MIT-ML
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #100
To: (@FILE [DSK:AIRAN;DUFFEY HNTXX6]) at MIT-ML
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Friday, 10 Oct 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 100
Today's Topics:
Terminal Design - Telex/TWX/DDD Terminal,
Telephone Services - DIAL-IT, Home Info Retrieval - Channel 2000,
Computers and the Deaf - CA PUC Recommendations
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LLOYD@MIT-AI 10/09/80 21:17:44 Re: Telex/TWX/DDD terminal
I have received many questions about the inteligent terminal I
mentioned in a previous HUMAN-NETS. The terminal in question is
designed/marketed by Cal DataCom in Orange, CA (714-540-8557) and
is built to spec by Toshiba. BTW, it can be used as a dumb ASCII
hardcopy terminal too.
Brian Lloyd
------------------------------
STEVEH@MIT-MC 10/09/80 11:26:05
I notice that the call to area code 900 will cost 50 cents for ONE
minute. That is very nearly the cost that TPC (The Phone Company)
charges for a station-to-station toll call now. I guess that they
aren't in this arena just for the love of sports.
I also wonder how much sports news they can put in one minute. Our
local sportscaster takes more than five minutes and he is mostly
reading scores. If it really covers national and international
sports, I can't really picture it being covered in very much depth.
Steve
------------------------------
Date: 8 OCT 1980 1023-PDT
From: FIDDRR at AMES-67
Subject: CHANNEL 2000 HOME ATM & INFO. RETRIEVAL
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- October 6, 1980
Flip on your television set, pick up your phone, and you can pay
a bill, check the community calendar or look up something in the
encyclopedia.
It's called Channel 2000, an experiment in home banking and
electronic information that starts today for 200 Columbus
households.
At the touch of a button, televisions turn into computer terminals
that can bring to the TV screen items ranging from the public
library catalog to math problems.
Channel 2000 is a joint project of Banc One Corp., a bank holding
company that has pioneered electronic banking services, and OCLC
Inc., which operates a computer network for libraries.
The aim of the four-month experiment for participating Banc One
customers is to evaluate the practicality of an electronic home
banking and information service, according to project director
John Russell, a senior vice president of Banc One Corp.
|... article continues discussing ATM operations...|
Channel 2000 also lets participants electronically select and check
out library books. For kids, there are programs on basic math and
reading. For adults, there's a calendar of events and a community
bulletin board.
And in the future, even more features can be added, said Tom Harnish,
information scientist and project manager of OCLC, a non-profit
corporation that operates a computer network used by more than 2,200
libraries in the United States and Canada.
Note -- The article does not mention the deaf explicitly in the text,
but the accompanying photograph clearly lists "DEAF COMMUNITY BULLETIN
BOARD" on the television screen.
Regards, Don Reynolds
(REYNOLDS @ AMES-67)
------------------------------
Date: 10 Oct 80 0220-EDT
From: KLH at MIT-AI (Ken Harrenstien)
Subject: OII 70 - PUC cross-examination update
Okay, the cross-examination of the PUC witness (Popenoe, or
PP for short) is over with after three days. As I mentioned in
the update, these three days were rather cleanly divided into
phone companies, deaf representatives, and manufacturers.
There were no real surprises. The phone companies were more
or less clarifying the procedures allowed, the deaf reps were asking
for various changes, and the manufacturers were mostly silent. I'll
cover that last part first, then jump into the juicy details of Day 2.
The primary questioners on the third day were Novation and SSI.
Novation was trying to question Popenoe about details of the trust
fund, more or less to expose his lack of knowledge about the legal
problems involved. For example, Novation asked whether PP had
considered possible anti-trust suits (eg from manufacturers who
weren't selected by phone company), and asked about the effects
of the 2nd FCC Computer Inquiry (which would require deregulating
terminal equipment).
PP had an interesting answer to the latter; he basically said
that the PUC has to act on the situation as it exists, not as they
think it might be in two years. He implied that there was a good
chance it might never actually take effect. However, if it did, PP
said, the free-TDD program would have to be "drastically revised",
and would probably require some new legislative action since it
would then be out of the hands of the PUC.
Novation did establish that PP was primarily responsible for
the "PUC recommendation"; practically no one else was involved.
The fund plan was based very much on what Pac Tel had suggested
in private discussions. Novation also tried to push its idea for a
"chit" or "credit" system whereby deaf individuals could register
with the phone co, and get some paper that entitled them to obtain
a free TDD of their choice at any convenient store. This would take
the choice of device out of the hands of the telco, and into those
of the consumer. However, PP was able to come up with fairly cogent
reasons why it won't do; primarily the issue was one of maintaining
CONTROL over the whole thing, and most of this control is given into
the hands of the telcos; if anyone objects to what the telco does,
they have to complain to the PUC, which is then supposed to
investigate.
The question of ASCII/Baudot was only raised briefly by Novation
(which is pro-ASCII); it wasn't addressed at all by SSI, which mostly
asked questions that were clearly oriented to helping SSI develop its
marketing strategies -- which areas first, timetable, etc. This was
slightly surprising, since the transcripts of earlier testimony (yes,
I now have the complete set) have shown SSI to be the most anti-ASCII
manufacturer.
It's not really clear why NO manufacturer asked any questions
that would support Baudot; only Novation even touched on the issue.
That could be due to either of two reasons, keeping in mind that
most mfrs are reasonably content with the PUC recommendation:
(1) They didn't think the deaf reps made much impression,
and didn't want to rock the boat.
(2) They thought we made TOO MUCH impression, and couldn't
find any way to argue against ASCII without looking
petty or anti-deaf.
Remember, they only had one night to prepare any questions to handle
the unexpected attack of the second day. At any rate, we now come
to the details of this blitzkrieg...
------------------------------
As things turned out, I went first (representing SRI and
more-or-less myself as a rare deafie/engineer hybrid), followed by
Judy Tingley (representing the state Dept of Rehab) who is also deaf,
and rounded off by Therese Wandling (representing DCARA/BACLAD) who
is the only lawyer among us, and probably the only lawyer in the
whole proceeding who isn't clearly identifiable as a member of the
genus.
The ordering was important. I mostly hacked away at Mr. PP on
fairly technical grounds, thereby cutting off his easiest avenues of
escape. In the past, many questions about ASCII/Baudot have been
fielded with non-answers that, because they were technical, couldn't
be understood or fielded as such by the questioners. During my
questioning, he spun out enough rope to hang himself with, and I
did my best to draw the noose tight, but (shucks) he could still
breathe... the important thing was ensuring that he couldn't use
the same bullshit on the following parties. And I mean BULLSHIT.
Real crap. Allow me to give you one of his real howlers:
I asked PP about his written statement that "ASCII introduces
many complexities"; exactly what were those complexities?
PP answered with just two (count 'em, 2) points:
(1) ASCII had 72 extra characters.
(2) ASCII had a "parity bit" that had to be even or odd.
I tabled point 1 for later, and beat on point 2. I got him to
admit that the parity bit did not in fact have any impact on
the ease of using ASCII, and then... PP explained that he meant,
of course, the extra complexity of the parity circuits, which
would add to the cost.
All I remember after that was a stunned sense of unreality in
the making. I should have asked if he had ever heard of UART chips
(which, for you non-hardware folks, are single chips which handle all
the functions of transmitting and receiving 5, 6, 7, or 8 bit data,
including parity generation and checking -- they are dirt cheap and
ubiquitous). Fortunately I did manage to recover sufficiently to
vanquish point 1 with some stuff already on the record that showed
deaf users preferred ASCII-type keyboards, since they are much more
similar to typewriter keyboards than are those of Baudot TDD's.
On another front, all the information about Telex/TWX (special
thanks to Marvin Sirbu and DDeutsch) enabled me to punch some holes
in PP's misleading statements about Baudot.
Anyway, that gives you an idea. In general, I think I managed
to wipe out all of his smears against ASCII, and the only viable
reason PP had left for any sort of preference was simply cost;
since he insisted that he won't believe in the cost figures for
dual-capability TDDs until he saw them on the market, neither I
nor Dave Fylstra (backing me up with scribbled additions to our
list of questions) could quite dent that sanctuary.
Enter Judy. After working PP over on several unrelated points
(such as whether and how the surcharge should be identified on the
bills), she began poking him about the relative sizes of the ASCII
and Baudot terminal markets, and the question of providing access
to just other TDD's or to the millions of home terminals which are
on their way. General stuff, the sort of thing that most people
can follow. She took up some unfinished things from my turn and
pushed PP harder on them; significantly, the judge seemed to like
her questions.
And finally, Therese stepped in. Judy and I were thinking
"well, we weren't so bad", but now we saw how a REAL lawyer did
things. I was enormously impressed. You have to realize that up
to now, PP had been something of an amoeba; push him in at one
place, and his answer just oozes out to retake something you
thought you had already established. He can wander completely
away from your question, and it's easy to forget what you really
wanted to ask about in the first place.
What we saw now was a quick, incisive stream of pearled pins...
if he began to wander, Therese would gently but firmly shoot another
pin in his wings and yank his face back in front of the question. More
importantly, she used this to establish momentum that pushed him right
through points that had already stymied Judy and me -- where before he
would say "no, never", he was now saying "uh, maybe, I guess so", to
the SAME questions! It was as if our previous attempts had simply
tried to have PP jump from here up to there in one blunt attempt (and
failed), whereas Therese built a ramp of tightly linked logical chains
and then PUSHED him up and over...
I'm sorry I can't reproduce it here; it was too fast, and I
don't think she actually introduced any major new points. Rather,
she worked on what we had already done, and brought everything
together in a great summary. Not only that, she finished in exactly
enough time for the judge to recess the hearings for the day. I'm
not sure, but suspect that no matter how much time was available, she
would have done the same things and still wrapped it up precisely on
time. Luck? Skill? I don't know...
I apologize again for not giving specific examples, after all
this clapping. I can say, though, that she was addressing the real
issues of how the PUC defined "needs" of the deaf, and tying that to
the need for maximal access to hearing people (who, by implication,
have ASCII).
That's what I meant by "moral victory". A cross-examination is
not for the purpose of converting a witness, and we didn't do that.
It's hard to believe, though, that this sort of concerted full-day
effort failed to have some impact on the judge, particularly when
you consider that ALL the parties with any "deaf" connections were
solidly asking for ASCII capability.
--------------------------------------------------
So what happens now? Judge Daly has set two more days, Oct 17
and Oct 22, for the purpose of receiving additional testimony.
All the current parties of record can call further witnesses (with
written testimony accompanying each). However, those two days are
IT; at 4:00 pm Oct 22, the proceedings will be closed whether or
not all of the witnesses have been seen, and the judge will trundle
off to hibernate and mull things over for a while. He will probably
announce a decision sometime in November, and by December the PUC
commissioners should have accepted either the judge's recommendation
or a variant thereof; in January 1981 the program will get underway
in one form or another.
As you might expect, we will now be scurrying around trying
to round up two or three good respected/credible witnesses who
can provide independent support for our long-range world-view,
and convince the PUC that 9 out of 10 world-renowned experts agree
with us, or something to that effect. Unfortunately, apparently
the testimony must be PERSONAL -- the witness must be available
for cross-examination, and it's kind of expensive to airlift people
in just for a half hour. (Plantronics did it...) You'd think there
would be plenty of expert VIPs in the Bay area, but I can't think of
any; wish there was an Old-Boy Network Resource Handbook.
Well, I don't think this has been a particularly good report --
it's obviously biased, I can't remember a lot of details, and haven't
listed a couple of arguments that are a lot more fundamental than
parity bits, for example -- but on the other hand that might make
it stodgier. It would certainly make it longer. So I'll quit for
tonight, catch up on more sleep, and perhaps follow up another day.
--Ken
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂10-Oct-80 1004 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) CS CLASS ENROLLMENT
Date: 10 Oct 1980 1001-PDT
From: CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai)
Subject: CS CLASS ENROLLMENT
To: CSD.GRIFFITHS at SU-SCORE, CSL.SUN.JFW at SU-SCORE, JEO at SU-AI,
CSL.BKR at SU-SCORE, DDY at SU-AI, DEK at SU-AI
cc: JMC at SU-AI, CSL.EJM at SU-SCORE, TOB at SU-AI, OR.STEIN at SU-SCORE,
RSS at SU-AI
Please send me your "in class" enrollment.
-------
∂10-Oct-80 1617 Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE> cs200
Date: 10 Oct 1980 1531-PDT
From: Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE>
Stanford-Phone: (415) 497-2274
Subject: cs200
To: JMC at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 10-Oct-80 1418-PDT
Don Knuth has also volunteered to do next Thursday. So, if that's
inconvenient, how about 11/13 or 12/4 or 12/11? -Denny
-------
I succeeded in changing the appointment, so next Thursday is
now convenient. My title will be "The role of mathematical logic
in artificial intelligence".
∂10-Oct-80 1742 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE arpa money
Date: 10 Oct 1980 1737-PDT
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Subject: arpa money
To: csd.buchanan at SU-SCORE, jmc at SU-AI
We're in a funny position. The arpa money for the year could come in
next week, or we could be in for a long seige. Could I ask the two of
you to begin thinking about ways in which expenditures from arpa grants
could be deferred for a few months? In the meanwhile, I am exploring
sources of backup funds with the deans, but their help may be limited
or too late.
-------
Does this apply to all ARPA money or just that from contracts (ARPA
doesn't give grants) recently awarded or renewed?
∂10-Oct-80 2012 Solomon at MIT-Multics (Richard Jay Solomon) visit next week
Date: 10 October 1980 23:12 edt
From: Solomon at MIT-Multics (Richard Jay Solomon)
Subject: visit next week
Sender: Solomon.Datanet at MIT-Multics
To: jmc at SU-AI
Would Thursday lat AM or Friday (Oct 16, 17) be better for you. Want to
update you on our progress and talk about use of NS at SU-AI. Richard
Solomon.
Thursday at 11 would be fine.
∂11-Oct-80 1006 JRA
can i get a copy of your 206 notes? if so, could you put them in the the "a"-box, thnks
∂11-Oct-80 1814 Solomon.Datanet at MIT-Multics
Date: 11 October 1980 21:14 edt
From: Solomon.Datanet at MIT-Multics
To: John McCarthy <JMC at SU-AI>
In-Reply-To: Message of 11 October 1980 00:11 edt from John McCarthy
OK. Will se you at 11 on Thrusday. I can be reached at 213 395-9141 or
415 525-8436 (late evening) on Wed if necessary. richard
∂11-Oct-80 1904 100 : Ray Tayek (III or RT at MIT-AI) via RAND-TIP Operating software for the Motorola 68000
I am looking into obtaining software for III.
Currently under consideration are: Motorola's PASCAL with VERSADOS
MIT's C/Trix (a flavor of C/Unix) and various other C/xxx's from
software houses like Softech and Whitesmish etc. I understand that there is
a C/Unix type system at Stanford. Any thechical information about it or
anydirection, comments, criticisms etc. from you regarding this
(these) topic will be appreciated.
Thank you
∂12-Oct-80 1500 JK
ekl update
I decided to overhaul the entire system to its final form; i.e. after
this is done (I am now about 80% done with writing code) I expect
to see only local changes.
The documentation has been reborn as a manual for the future system -
as ekl.man[ekl,jk]. Comments welcome. The most significant change
is that the top level of ekl will be the top level of maclisp with
a catch for derivation errors.
One can therefore write arbitrary lisp functions etc. in this
environment - thus ekl is automatically programmable.
Proofs, being accessible to the user only by their names, can be
manipulated and modified only thru the system functions. The user will
have functions for environment inquiries.
After I am through with this round of coding the only nonimplemented
functions in ekl.man will be parsing for terms and normalization of proofs.
When will the other terminal materialize in my office? This would make life
simpler.
I can't even understand how to begin using EKL from the manual, but
maybe starting at the beginning of it isn't right. As I mentioned,
perhaps I need a lesson, but surely we eventually need an introduction
that assumes no previous acquaintance with the project. Also Joe Weening,
a new graduate student, will need an introduction.
∂12-Oct-80 1611 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Date: 12 Oct 1980 1608-PDT
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
To: JMC at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 10-Oct-80 2114-PDT
As of now, we have the authority to spend none of the money on hand
and we have received no new money. The only exception I see is that
of a contract that had an expiration date after Sept. 30, 1980, if there
are any. The problem we are facing is that we don't have the money to
back up expenditures against the expected receipt of the money or authorization
to spend money in hand.
-------
It is my understanding that the basic AI Lab contract began in Oct 79
and expires in 1981. If this is correct, maybe it can loan money
to the other activities.
∂12-Oct-80 1616 VRP via Dialnet lisp
I've been trying to sell the SUN people on the virtues of Lisp, but I find
that Maclisp doesn't seem to work properly from datadiscs (seems to map
altmode to octal 33, } to octal 176, which is incompatible with the sail
character set. I haven't had much luck in persuading rpg to look into
this. Maybe the right thing to do is to use Pascal, for which John
Hennessy is producing a compiler which it looks like we will be able to
use. Any suggestions for saving Lisp would be very gratefully received.
For what purpose are you advocating LISP? I am now inclined to be more
assertive than formerly about the virtues of LISP for general purpose use.
I can talk to RPG once I understand what's at issue, but I can see that
e won't get very excited about a general claim that Maclisp doesn't work
from Datadiscs, since people have been using it from Datadiscs for years,
and presumably have been getting around minor character problems, which
I confess I haven't heard about.
∂12-Oct-80 1637 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Date: 12 Oct 1980 1636-PDT
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
To: JMC at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 12-Oct-80 1628-PDT
I'd check that. My understanding from Betty is that even though arpa
may have committed to you money through 1981, they only distribute the
money one year at a time and only authorize its use one year at a time.
Thus, although you may be 100% sure of getting your money for the second
year, there is a technicality that we cannot spend the money without
another letter from arpa. (I could be wrong about you as a specific
case, but if so, we'd better see the letter of authorization.) Incidentally,
I hope you understand that this phenomenon is an annual one. the only
reason it has become a crisis this year is that our cash position is
not sufficiently large to cover the contrat expenditures until they
are made legal.
-------
In the past fifteen years, Les protected me from much knowledge of good
and evil. Probably Betty also knows, and the problem is as you say. I
don't believe there are any deferrable expenditures coming up like trips.
I have an various unrestricted accounts that can guarantee money, but they
don't have enough in them to pay salaries for very long.
∂12-Oct-80 1638 VRP via Dialnet misunderstanding?
I said non-dd's, Maclisp seems to work just fine from dd's.
When you try to use Maclisp from a non-dd, Maclisp seems to think you
are using the standard ascii conventions rather than the sail conventions,
which is great for anywhere but at sail itself, where standard ascii won't
do.
You wrote "I've been trying to sell the SUN people on the virtues of Lisp,
but I find that Maclisp doesn't seem to work properly from datadiscs
(seems to map ..." It seems that we should talk to RPG, though I wouldn't
be surprised if he claimed it was a system problem. My query as to what
applications are recommended still stands.
∂12-Oct-80 1721 VRP via Dialnet whoops
Whoops, my fault, sorry.
Well, RPG and I went round in circles a week ago on this problem, finally
passing the buck to ME, who declared it a Maclisp problem. RPG said he'd
try to do something about it, but I think he's a bit too snowed under with
thesis to pay too much attention to the problem.
Right now I'm implementing the first of a couple of 68000 processor boards,
with Andy Bechtolsheim. We debated whether to use SUDS or SIL as the means
of entering the board implementation, and finally decided that neither were
as convenient as S-expressions. So now we have half a board typed in
(very succinctly, to our surprise) using my SHDL conventions, documented
in EG.HDL[1,VRP]. The board is in CPUA.HDL[1,VRP].
The problem I've been having is that I'd like to spice up SHDL with a bit
of syntax - while it is pretty easy to read right now, it would even easier
to read with the right syntactic conventions. So I've been trying to
get my syntactic preprocessor, CGOL, up and running on MACLISP. This is
where the non-dd problems rear their ugly heads. Although Andy works from
dd's invariably, I work from a non-dd almost invariably, from a VT-52 at
home and a Z-19 at Stanford. So we really need to get maclisp to look the
same from both. (I.e. (tyi) should return octal 175 when an altmode is
typed, whether typed from a dd or from a non-dd, and similarly for },
~, and not-equals.)
Incidentally, what is the history behind sail's permutation of those
characters?
I think that maybe SAIL's use of those codes antedates the final decisions
about ASCII, but I don't know. Dave Poole (Foonly) might be able to
say if you run across his path, and Steve Russell certainly would know.
It might be well to stick with S-expressions for a while; Ketonen is
doing that with his new proof-checker, and it allows more freedom for
the eventual syntax. I don't have any other suggestion than to see what
RPG will get around to doing, and since you are in good communication
with him, I doubt that I could add much. However, I'll mention it
next time I see him.
It seems that the world lost when I let Feldman push SAIL as the
"Stanford Artificial Intelligence Language" even though I did
reduce him to the acronym not regarded as an abbreviation.
The previous message from me was intended for VRP. You were a misprint.
∂12-Oct-80 1855 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Date: 12 OCT 1980 2154-EDT
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
To: JMC at SU-AI
How an editor fits in is exactly how you proposed it in HOTER.ESS
although you might not have realized it. If a person wishes to get
all his information after it's passed through an editor instead of
raw unbiased sampling of public, he merely asks the ISR system to
retrieve "magazine"s by various editors instead of keyword-raw-data.
Personally I would take magazines by Carl Sagan, you, and several
other bright innovative people, but also take raw random-selected
data from my keyword-based subject areas as time permitted or for
subjects where there was no good editor or where I was the editor.
How do you get there from here? Is there any way the last month's
discussion in HUMAN-NETS could get boiled down, written better,
rid of acknowledged factual errors? I suppose if there were an
editor, who could promise a larger and paying audience, this editor
could get a number of the HUMAN-NETS contributors to rewrite their
contributions and maybe those of editors. My impression is that
a factor of five compression wouldn't be hard.
∂12-Oct-80 2033 JK ekl
I see your point about lessons - I am not always very succesful in
explaining myself. Once I get the new version going I will try to come
up with something more readable.
Will you be in some time tomorrow?
∂12-Oct-80 2045 VRP via Dialnet lisp @ sail
One of Lisp's weak links has been the lack of a careful analysis of its
strengths and weaknesses. Without such an analysis Lisp, like any other
language, is vulnerable to ill-conceived competition such as SAIL.
Both John Allen and I have been defending Lisp on this particular front.
The bottom line is that we are both advocating Lisp primarily for its
abstractness. My way of expressing this is in terms of mobility of data,
which I take to be about the same notion as Strachey's "first-class
citizenship" or Popplestone's "charter of rights," only made a little more
down-to-earth by relating the concept to practical programming concerns (it's
nice if one's religion has some rational foundation). Both John's and
my position are spelled out in the August 79 issue of Byte.
Another reason for understanding Lisp's strengths is to know in which
direction to move to improve on Lisp. My position there is: Lisp is more
abstract than most other languages, but not abstract enough. The
"necessary kludges" should be fixed, as a carefully thought out extension
to Lisp, preferably simplifying Lisp's concepts in the process. In the
process one should not overlook the possibility that the paradigms of
mathematics fail to adequately support some computational concepts,
particularly those bearing on distributed computation.
∂12-Oct-80 2110 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Date: 13 OCT 1980 0009-EDT
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
To: JMC at SU-AI
I think we have to wait for the invention of a mass storage device before
we can really afford to implement the system I proposed. Now we can just
experiment with toy systems like the HUMAN-NETS and ENERGY mailing lists
themselves and talk about what we'll do when video disk or whatever is
invented.
What is the ENERGY mailing list, and how can I read samples?
∂12-Oct-80 2210 RPG non-DD lossage
To: JMC, VRP
I will get around to fixing the problem, but not for another week
or so. I has to do with some pretty awful code for full-character-setting
input, which is n-ways conditional for SAIL, TENEX, CMU, TOPS-10.
The reason the <alt> from a non-dd loses is that it is read
as 33 alright, but then control characters are made internal
control characters, which adds the initial 3 (after while)
to get 333. <cr> is thus internally represented as 315. That's
probably easy to fix. The ↑←↑Z is more puzzling, but VRP
should never need to type ≠ if he would just fix his CGOL code.
As a sidelight, I agree with JMC that VRP should stick with
straight s-expressions for compatiblity (!!!).
-rpg-
∂13-Oct-80 0006 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Date: 13 OCT 1980 0306-EDT
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
To: JMC at SU-AI
Date: 12 Oct 1980 2147-PDT
From: John McCarthy <JMC at SU-AI>
What is the ENERGY mailing list, and how can I read samples?
He's pro-energy so perhaps you can do a good job of answering his
question, better than I could (I'm not a good writer). Actually I
wanted to forward this to the maintainer of ENERGY but forgot who
he is. Maybe you know. Actually I'm too tired to think, going to bed...
∂13-Oct-80 0022 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Date: 13 OCT 1980 0321-EDT
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
To: JMC at SU-AI
How do you get there from here? Is there any way the last month's
discussion in HUMAN-NETS could get boiled down, written better,
rid of acknowledged factual errors?
If I got paid for it and had nothing more important to do I might be
willing to work part time as a word-processing editor to clean up the
grammar and other things in submitted articles, if anyone wanted me
to do it. Others might be willing too if paid enough. It's a simple
job that lets you browse lots of differing opinions on your favorite
subject, so it might be a desirable job for lots of people. Given
infinite baudrate, good display, convenient and powerful commands,
online information database, etc. it's a reasonable thing to make
part of a living doing. In some cases I'd WANT to clean up some things
that I've heard certain politicians etc. say. For example, just tonite
on KTEH I heard a blurb about how in the middle ages there were all
these random attempts to ward off the Plague (or was it Typhus, I missed
the beginning), but now in most of the world epidemic disease has
been virtually eliminated. I'd like them to name one country where the
common cold and venereal disease have been wiped out. I'd like to be
able to edit people's contributions and point out the flaws in their
statements, requesting them to reword before I will release them to the
public. P.s. Carl Sagan was good tonite, said "literally" twice, and
in both cases he really meant "literally", unlike these ridiculous
modern people I hear say "literally" when they mean "un-literally"
i.e. "metaphorically" (like just the other day a sports broadcaster
said that a certain quarterback "literally exploded"). I'm not for
rolling back to the King's English, but maybe halfway back would be
a good repair of sloppy thinking and non-communication of the 70's
and now the 80's I fear.
P.s. ignore previous erroneous message where I used Reply feature
to forward your query and forgot to change the recipient name before
exiting the reply mode the first time.
It's not so easy to get perfect accuracy if you also require conciseness.
The speaker was right that the kind of epidemic as when plague killed
half the population of Europe or smallpox killed thousands in one city
in a year or cholera killed thousands have been eliminated. This has
caused the word "epidemic" to be inflated to refer to the common cold
and venereal disease. Can you reword the statement equally concisely,
and so that it will convey just as much information to the average
person and still be literally correct? Sometimes I have condensed
a statement by consciously eliminating a qualification with the
expected side-effect that an expert would find the statement not
literally correct, but would get the information as would also the
non-expert. I could reword this message, so as to make it shorter
and with fewer misstatements if I took more time.
Are you interested in work as an editor?
∂13-Oct-80 0119 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Date: 13 OCT 1980 0418-EDT
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
To: JMC at SU-AI
At the present time I'm much overcommitted. My work at
IMSSS, PCNet, keepingup on HUMAN-NETS and ENERGY, trying to find a
wife, working on XGP/PRESS conversion program, working on data-compression,
adapting the Go program from Jil Westcott to run in conjunction with
my unGo program and my endgame algorithm, and who knows what else...
No time for editorship except in miniscule ways currently.
Ok, but when you do want editing work, remember it's "minuscule".
∂13-Oct-80 0200 HUMAN-NETS@MIT-AI HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #103
Date: 13 OCT 1980 0451-EDT
From: HUMAN-NETS@MIT-AI
Sent-by: DUFFEY at MIT-ML
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #103
To: (@FILE [DSK:AIRAN;DUFFEY HNTXX6]) at MIT-ML
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Monday, 13 Oct 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 103
Today's Topics: Polls - Discrepancies, Electronic Mail - Telex/TWX,
Telephone Services - Independents,
Communicating via Network - Discussions, Going in Circles
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LLOYD@MIT-AI 10/12/80 14:39:30 Re: Polling and results
I have been involved in several political campaigns and I can verify
the accuracy (or inaccuracy) of polling.
Yes, phrasing of questions can influence the outcome of the poll,
but the 'art' of phrasing is now fairly well understood. Questions
are phrased in such a way as to make them psychologically neutral.
What have been the results? In every campaign where we have done
polling, the final results have fallen within the statistical
uncertainty of the sample.
Brian Lloyd
------------------------------
Date: 12 October 1980 1351-EDT
From: William Sholar at CMU-10A
Subject: Polls etc.
There are quite a few problems with the polls. For one, as mentioned
on Sunday's digest, the slightest change in wording of a question can
have significant effects on the results.
"What will Carter do about . . . "
"What should Carter do about . . . "
"What would you have Carter do about . . . "
and "What should be done about . . . "
are all quite different questions on a poll, and there is not
necessarily much correlation between the answers subjects will
give.
Also, polls affect people's opinions about as much as people's
opinions affect the poll results. The wording of questions often
implies the "correct" answer (although this doesn't happen as often
in the higher quality research), and the publicized results indicate
to the public how a substantial number of others feel on an issue,
thus short-circuiting the decision-making and opinion-forming process
in the reader. While this can be useful for one who wants to under-
stand how others feel when making a decision, too often a decision
can be made on the basis of those opinions of others.
The above problems refer to "accidental" inaccuracies of polls.
There are also the somewhat deliberate inaccuracies. I was once
asked in a poll for my opinion on "the multi-million dollar give-
away of the Panama Canal, for which thousands have died . . . ".
The clear implication was that a pro stance implies responsibility
for the loss of the money and the lives. "Should the State protect
the God-given right to . . . " seems to suggest an answer. In
these types of questions, those who disagree strongly will generally
disagree anyway, and those who agree will agree. But for a large
number of people, a specific issue is of less import than just
getting through with the stupid poll! I suggest that one who would
be "undecided" on any relatively unbiased poll would take the easy
way out and bow to the implications of the question. Thus these
biased polls probably misattribute the opinions of many who are
really undecided.
Finally, there is the behavioral engineering aspect of polls. It
has been shown (and I am continuing research in this area -- comments
invited) that if you can get someone to take some action regarding an
attitude or opinion (such as answering the poll question) which is in
even slight agreement with the underlying belief, then the belief will
be strengthened, and the attitude will become significantly more re-
sistant to change in the future. So if a political pollster succeeds
in getting a favorable answer to a question, then the pollster has
succeeded in strengthening the subject's commitment to the issue,
even if the pre-questioning commitment was almost nil.
Bill Sholar
------------------------------
Date: 12 OCT 1980 1721-EDT
From: DEE at CCA (Don Eastlake)
Subject: TWX, independent phone companies
It used to be possible to call TWXs area codes from regular phone
numbers and by pass the automatic code conversion by blue boxing the
TWX area code with digits reversed. (IE, "017" was the equivalent
of 710 without the conversion nonsense) This was quite a few years
ago and may not still work.
I thought that most tiny independent phone companies paid Bell to
supply their operators if it was at all possible. Although Bell
certainly would not propose to take over a small independent at
its own initiative for fear of anti-trust problems, I don't really
see how a Public Utility Commission, whose duty is to the public's
convenience and necessity, could refuse a petition by say most of
the 200 subscribers of one of these tiny telcos outside Pittsburgh
that they be taken over by Bell.
I haven't checked recently but as of a few years ago there were three
non-bell companies in Massachusetts. Two covered small western Mass
towns and the third was the "Naushon Island Telephone Company" with
less than 100 subscribers that handled Naushon, Gosnold, and other
islands in Buzzard's Bay. Apparently Bell was not interested in all
the low usage marine cable that had to be laid to provide service.
------------------------------
Date: 12 October 1980 22:15-EDT
From: Robert Elton Maas <REM at MIT-MC>
Subject: Emily's Electronic Post
cc: ENERGY at MIT-MC
Let me add that there is a simple way to clean up the archive after
people have done the easy thing of using the reply feature and editing
the response into the original message text or excerpts thereof. An
editor (in the sense of journalism, not EMACS/TVEDIT) program could
go through the archive of messages looking for repeated chunks of
text and replace all but the first with a citation to the original
instance. It could list not only the volume and issue but the actual
line number or range of lines that was quoted. It could also include
the author of the original quotation. Users retrieving replies would
then have the choice of asking the mail-reading program to follow
that citation link and put the original message on the screen with
the cited lines boldified or underlined or colored, or not. If the
archive is processed in forward chronological order, then each cited
text will have its line-numbering well-defined before any references
to it are made, so that a one-pass method can be used. Not only will
this technique make it easier for people to reply to messages without
messing up the final archive, but it will detect plagiarism and redun-
dancy too! (The method is to compile a concordance of all the archive
up to one point, and as it processes the next message it checks for a
duplicate. If dup, make citation link, if new, put new entry in the
concordance.) Nifty, huh?
P.S. It is not yet feasible for this. When the video disk, or some
other truly-massive cheap fast memory is invented, write-once
probably, then it will be feasible to keep the entire archive
and concordance and edited-archive simultaneously online, and
my method will be feasible. If all the mailing lists in the
whole HUMAN-NET are on this one system simultaneously including
their united concordance, a lot of duplicated effort and
plagiarism will be eliminated.
------------------------------
Date: 13 Oct 1980 at 0220-EDT
From: The Moderator
Subject: Context for the Following Message
A great deal of mail was distributed by the ENERGY mailing list
last week. Due to the volume of mail, several people suggested
making it a digest list like HUMAN-NETS. David Phillips sent
the following message in response and CC'd it to HUMAN-NETS. It
makes some observations about communicating with electronic mail
and about this list. Answer 1 responds to the question of whether
the ENERGY archive should be edited to remove some messages that
did not seem to be appropriate for the list. JEP refers to
Dr. Jerry Pournelle.
-- RDD
------------------------------
Date: 9 Oct 1980 at 1221-CDT
From: david at UTEXAS
Subject: bboard maintenance
To: energy at mit-mc
1. I also feel that on principle no message should be deleted.
2. I vote against "digesting" ENERGY, because it seems that
"institutionalizing" these mailing lists leads them to become ever
bigger and consequently less useful (though I can't vouch for the
usefulness of this list so far). HUMAN-NETS, for example, often
has some useful tidbit of information, but quite frankly, it has
become tedious to wade through all the personal opinion and the
n-th report on how somebody or other's phone book situation is.
I would prefer to see these bboards used for news and information
items, rather than a forum for discussion or just a place to chit-
chat. You are all interesting and nice people I'm sure, and it
would be nice to meet anyone of you and discuss the state of the
world or whatever. But many of these bboard exchanges seem a big
waste of time. For example, we know clearly where JEP stands on
energy and space issues. I don't think I could ever sway his
point of view, and I very much doubt he could sway mine. So is
there any point in either of us sending messages for or against
anything, simply reiterating our positions and adding no new
information that would be useful to others.
One more thing (personal opinion -- guilty.) to get off my chest.
You people who insist on responding point by tedious point to
messages by interspersing your comments in the original message are
really tedious. In the first place, I don't like the attitude it
often seems to imply: "You said this, and I don't like it, and I'm
going to show it to everyone, and then point out just how dumb it
is." Secondly, why not save everyone's time by summarizing the
information you want to convey.
--david m phillips
------------------------------
Date: 12 Oct 1980 1650-EDT
From: GILBERT at MIT-XX
Subject: TPC's edict on left turns
Drivers of Pacific Telephone trucks are under orders to avoid left
turns whenever possible for safety reasons. "We're supposed to make
four right turns instead (of one left turn)," a driver said. Is the
order being obeyed? "What do you think?" the driver said, laughing.
Sort of makes you wonder. Dave Edwards
It does. I wonder whether it's
the company or the drivers who
think that four right turns are
equivalent to a left turn. Ed Gilbert
------------------------------
Date: 13 Oct 1980 0029-EDT
From: KAMESH.RAMAKRISHNA at CMU-10A
Subject: How many left turns does it take to screw in a light bulb??
With reference to the note yesterday, you can make a left turn in most
cities with three right turns -- you must go one block past the place
you would normally make a left turn.
Continuing in the same way, in most communist countries you need to
make three left turns to make a right turn; thats because the cars
are manufactured without right turn capabilities.
Sure makes me wonder.
Kamesh Ramakrishna
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂13-Oct-80 0317 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 13 OCT 1980 0617-EDT
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: POURNELLE at MIT-MC, JMC at SU-AI
Date: 11 Oct 1980 2332-PDT
From: John McCarthy <JMC at SU-AI>
It's coming.
GOOD!!!!!!!!!
Are you planning on coming down for Saturn encounter early
November?
I will be putting up John Gribbin of NEW SCIENTIST and a lot of
interesting people will be here...
I wasn't planning to come, and it would depend on the which day, but
if I could visit you and tag along, it would be very interesting.
I now have a draft with which I am not satisfied. It has some
duplications which are partly consequences of editing through a
knothole. Would you prefer
(a) I submit it as is and you say yes or no.
(b) You ftp the file (which is INNOVA[F80,JMC]) and you
make editorial suggestions.
(c) I U.S. mail a copy for same purpose.
(d) I electronic mail you a copy.
(e) You telephone (415)321-4562 and tell the computer
TYPE INNOVA[F80,JMC].
All the electronic means will get you versions that have
a few random PUB commands. These won't confuse you about the
sense, but they might confuse Fawcett.
∂13-Oct-80 0343 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 13 OCT 1980 0643-EDT
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: JMC at SU-AI
I'll call momentarily--or can we link?
∂13-Oct-80 0437 POURNE@MIT-MC Your article
From: POURNE@MIT-MC
Date: 10/13/80 07:37:15
Subject: Your article
POURNE@MIT-MC 10/13/80 07:37:15 Re: Your article
To: JMC at MIT-MC
I have viewed INNOVA, and I will buy it. You will want to make
a couple of passes cleaning up (including some trivial stuff and
some missing sentences), and you might rethink the last
paragraph (not that the last paragraph is wrong, but that you
might find a more socko ending; it rads as if you had more to
say and got caught out of time).
Anyway, you have a week or so and it would probably be best if
you could mail the resulting ms to m by US Snail.
Thanks,
Jerry
∂13-Oct-80 1204 Solomon at MIT-Multics (Richard Jay Solomon) tleemedicine
Date: 13 October 1980 15:04 edt
From: Solomon at MIT-Multics (Richard Jay Solomon)
Subject: tleemedicine
Sender: Solomon.Datanet at MIT-Multics
To: jmc at SU-AI
Do you know anyone at STanford working intelemedicine applications?
That's why I'm on the West Coast. It's for the Boston CSTV installation.
No. I've never heard the term before.
∂13-Oct-80 1459 Bob Moore <BMOORE at SRI-KL>
Date: 13 Oct 1980 1432-PDT
From: Bob Moore <BMOORE at SRI-KL>
To: JMC at SU-AI
cc: BMOORE at SRI-KL
In-Reply-To: Your message of 13-Oct-80 1129-PDT
Here is the abstact for my talk on Thursday:
POSSIBLE WORLD SEMANTICS FOR KNOWLEDGE AND ACTION
In the "classical" AI planning paradigm, the planner is assumed to
have complete knowledge of all relevant aspects of the problem domain
and problem situation in which it operates. In the real world,
however, planning and acting must frequently be performed without
complete knowledge of the situation. This fact imposes at least two
additional burdens on an intelligent agent trying to act effectively.
First, when the agent entertains a plan for achieving some goal, he
must consider not only whether the physical prerequisites of the plan
are satisfied, but also whether he has all the information neccessary
to carry out the plan. Second, he must be able to reason about what
he can do to obtain the necessary information that he currently lacks.
In this talk I will outline some of the basic ideas behind a system
for reasoning about the interactions between knowledge and action.
The key point is that knowledge and action can both be described using
modal operators having possible-world semantics. This means that we
will reason not about what facts someone knows, but rather what
possible situations are compatible with what he knows, and what
situation would result from performing a given action in a given
possible situation. These ideas will be illustrated by exploring what
it means for an action to be a test.
-------
∂13-Oct-80 1623 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) CS Colloquium Schedule for Autumn Quarter
Date: 13 Oct 1980 1618-PDT
From: CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai)
Subject: CS Colloquium Schedule for Autumn Quarter
To: CSD-Faculty:
cc: CSD.Dbrown at SU-SCORE
We have one opening for December 2 if anyone has a suggestion.
The current schedule is as follows:
Oct. 7 Vaughan Pratt
Oct. 14 John Gaschnig, SRI
Oct. 21 Herbert Wilf
Oct. 28 Peter Brown
Nov. 4 Zohar Manna
Nov. 11 T. C. Hu
Nov. 18 Lindley Darden (visiting Bruce Buchanan)
Nov. 25 Drs. R. G. Casey and T. D. Friedman of IBM
Dec. 2 ......
Dec. 9 Doug Hofstadter
for Winter Quarter:
Jan. 13 Brian Reid
We would appreciate suggestions for Dec. 2 and for Winter Quarter
Thanks,
Carolyn Tajnai
-------
∂13-Oct-80 1848 SEK Lisp at Lots
The handouts have been successfully run off. I'll be there tomorrow
at 9 to carry them down. Anything else you need: call me at home or
mail me a message. --Scott
∂13-Oct-80 1946 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Date: 13 OCT 1980 2245-EDT
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
To: JMC at SU-AI
Well, inserting one word, "major epidemics have been virtually eliminated"
will make his point without being incorrect according to current usage.
Remember he's writing/speaking for people born in 20th century, so he
needs to use words as they exist today more or less instead of as
they exysted four and twenty decades in the passt in a countrye far
distant &c. Oh well...
∂13-Oct-80 2008 RWW
John,
I have been thinking that if I'm payin for this student that I would
be better off having him as an office mate. If you have been in my office
lately you can see that it is barely livable and I am not too happy
after the fact!!! The smoke is a bit much. In any event if that
seems fair who do I complain to to do something about this.
Richard.
As to the livability of the office, I suggest you begin with the
occupants who seem reasonable, or at least polite. Barring satisfaction,
you can try Denny, but you are liable to comebacks about no being
in residence. Paul Martin is scheduled to leave at the end of the
quarter, and we can negotiate about Ann. Of course, there have been
delays before with Paul Martin.
∂14-Oct-80 0326 RPG CGOL
To: VRP
CC: JMC
Looked at it tonight and got it to work just nifty from a DM and DD.
However, I cannot seem to get ADVANCE to return from a non-DD. It may be that
the activation characters for non-DD are different than from a DD, but it's
getting late to tell. Perhaps you could try doing (sstatus linmode ()) to
see if that works better. I compiled CGOL on your area to make a nice one
for DD's, along with the beginning of the conditional stuff for DD vs non-DD.
IT was undeclared, which seemed a poor choice of special variables to me, but...
I've got 4 chapters of proof-reading, a figure, and a table to contents to
do before I look at this again, but I'll bet it'll work fine by monday.
-rpg-
∂14-Oct-80 1518 Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE> title for Thursday's CS200 talk
Date: 14 Oct 1980 1515-PDT
From: Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE>
Stanford-Phone: (415) 497-2274
Subject: title for Thursday's CS200 talk
To: jmc at SU-AI
cc: sis at SU-AI
Have you decided on a title for your talk this Thursday?
Please copy SIS so she can post it.
The talk is 2:45-4:00 pm in Psych 420-041. Do you want
me to bring an overhead?
-Denny
-------
∂14-Oct-80 1523 Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE> sorry for the nag message
Date: 14 Oct 1980 1522-PDT
From: Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE>
Stanford-Phone: (415) 497-2274
Subject: sorry for the nag message
To: jmc at SU-AI
I found the title you sent me previously. Sorry for nagging. -Denny
-------
∂14-Oct-80 1527 Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE> (415) 497-2274
Date: 14 Oct 1980 1524-PDT
From: Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE>
Stanford-Phone: (415) 497-2274
Subject: (415) 497-2274
To: JMC at SU-AI, DPB at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 10-Oct-80 1619-PDT
CS200 Schedule
Date Who Title
---- --- -----
10/2 Denny Brown ``Overview of CSD''
10/9 Susan Owicki ``Reasoning about Concurrent Programs''
10/16 John McCarthy ``The role of mathematical logic in
artificial intelligence''
10/23 Joe Oliger and ``Non-numerical problems arising in
Rob Schreiber Numerical Analysis''
10/30 Bruce Buchanan ``Expert Systems in HPP''
11/6
11/13
11/20 Dave Luckham ``The Program Verification Project''
11/25 Thanksgiving No class
12/4
12/11
Volunteers:
Msg Who Notes
--- --- -----
1 Lantz later on in q.
2 Manna 10/30 or 11/6
3 Owicki not 10/30
*4 Schreiber sooner the better
*5 Oliger after 10/16
*6 Luckham 11/20
*7 Oliger/Schreiber 10/23
*8 Oliger not 11/5-11/7
9 Knuth
*10 JMC Not 10/16
*11 JMC 10/16 ok
9-Oct-80 14:15:37-PDT,340;000000000001
Mail-from: ARPANET site SU-AI rcvd at 9-Oct-80 1415-PDT
Date: 09 Oct 1980 1414-PDT
From: Tom Binford <TOB at SU-AI>
Subject: cs200
To: DPB at SU-AI
Thurs Oct 16 is difficult because of an Image Understanding
Standards meeting locally although I could leave it for a short
time. The following two weeks are better.
Tom
-------
∂14-Oct-80 2218 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Date: 15 OCT 1980 0118-EDT
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
To: JMC at SU-AI
That's ok. SInceyou missed the program I guess we can't discuss much of
program. I was hopingyou had.
∂15-Oct-80 0809 DEK K and Q vs. K and R
My class will be discussing this on Thursday morning at 11am, also
next Tuesday at 11am, room 380U in math basement
Thanks for message. Unfortunately, I have visitor thurs but will try to
make tues.
∂15-Oct-80 1200 JD my talk you missed
I will be repeating the SIGLUNCH talk on my thesis that you
missed for the benefit of the SRI folks at their TINLUNCH
noon on Oct 23.
∂15-Oct-80 1453 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Please call David Cole at Holt, Rinehart and Winston. 58 692 6380. They
have a ms. which they would like you to review.
∂15-Oct-80 1517 FWH PV+A Seminar
To: "@SEM.DIS[SEM,VER]" at SU-AI
PROGRAM VERIFICATION AND ANALYSIS SEMINAR
PLACE: ERL 237
TIME: 2:30 p.m., Tuesday, October 21
SPEAKER: Olaf Owe, Stanford University and University of Oslo
TITLE: Specification Techniques for Data Types
ABSTRACT:
A scheme for complete and consistent axiomatization of data types is
presented. The scheme is based on the idea of defining an abstract
implementation. In many cases this scheme gives a simpler set of axioms
than the "Guttag scheme". Furthermore, a formal system that allows
(certain kinds of) abstraction from capacity constraints , called
idealization, is sketched - such that theorems in a (more or less)
idealized world will hold in a less idealized world. Traditional
abstraction together with idealization makes a powerful abstraction
relation.
Idealization can be related to partial correctness in the following way.
The (exact) effect function (sometimes called result function) of a program
cannot be axiomatized without total correctness reasoning. However, by
partial correctness reasoning an idealized version of the effect function
can be axiomatized.
∂16-Oct-80 0140 RWG at MIT-MC (Bill Gosper)
Date: 16 OCT 1980 0439-EDT
From: RWG at MIT-MC (Bill Gosper)
To: jmc at SU-AI
well, that EIS announcement in the timestrib had to do with EPA
all right, but nothing federal. It was prepared by the local agency formation
commision for the E(ast) P(alo) A(lto) municipal council and various water,
sewer, etc. district commisions to project the impact of East PA taking
any of three courses: incorporate as a city (and absorb some sorrounding
area), annex to menlo park, or annex to Palo Alto(!). county LAFC's
are mandated directly by the state wedgislature, and answerable to no
other state or fed agency. they seem to issue EISs at their own discretion,
mostly about redistricting.
∂16-Oct-80 0840 DEK
when you talk to cs200 this afternoon, you might want to throw in a remark
to the effect that some faculty people like me are thinking of boycotting
classes until the pony is operable!
∂16-Oct-80 1225 LGC Seminar Presentation
I'd like to make a presentation to the "knowledge and action" seminar in late
November or early December on the subject of a new, improved, successor to the
situation calculus.
∂16-Oct-80 1402 Beverly.Howell at CMU-10A Robotics Institute Dedication
Date: 16 October 1980 1654-EDT (Thursday)
From: Beverly.Howell at CMU-10A
To: feigenbaum at sumex-aim, JMC at su-ai
Subject: Robotics Institute Dedication
CC: Raj.Reddy at CMU-10B
Message-Id: <16Oct80 165417 BH51@CMU-10A>
On the morning of December 9, 1980 we will have the official dedication of
The Robotics Institute followed by a "show-n-tell" in the afternoon. We
cordially invite you to come and spend the day with us. We will pay your
expenses.
If you need reservations, etc. get in touch with Beverly Howell@cmua or
(412) 578-2572.
Regards,
Raj
∂16-Oct-80 1614 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE IBM grant
Date: 16 Oct 1980 1340-PDT
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Subject: IBM grant
To: CSD-Faculty: ;
cc: CSD-Research-Associates: ;
I have received little in the way of written suggestions for use of the
IBM grant. Please send me your proposals for use of some or all of the
25K for innovative projects in research or teaching.
-------
∂16-Oct-80 1616 CSD.BSCOTT at SU-SCORE
Date: 16 Oct 1980 1012-PDT
From: CSD.BSCOTT at SU-SCORE
To: JMC at SU-AI
Frances is ill and won't be in today.
Betty
-------
∂16-Oct-80 1944 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE Computer Facilities
Date: 16 Oct 1980 1813-PDT
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Subject: Computer Facilities
To: csl.jlh at SU-SCORE, fb at SU-AI, rindfleisch at SUMEX-AIM, jmc at SU-AI,
csd.lenat at SU-SCORE, dek at SU-AI, csd.oliger at SU-SCORE, miller at SRI-KL
cc: reg at SU-AI
I have asked Ralph Gorin to chair a committee to make plans for the
reeqipping of departmental computer facilities over the next three years.
We hope you will be willing to serve on this committee. The principal
responsibility will be to make a proposal to arpa for the spending of
about $750K/year for several years, on departmental computing facilities,
although there may be other sources of support and other opportunities,
as well. The committee may, if it wishes, investigate other planning
issues, such as space.
The first meeting of the committee will be next Thursday, Oct. 23,
3PM in 220 MJ, if that is convenient for all.
-------
∂17-Oct-80 0639 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #107
Date: 17 OCT 1980 0908-EDT
From: DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II)
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #107
To: HUMAN-NETS at MIT-AI
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Friday, 17 Oct 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 107
Today's Topics:
Communicating via Network - Organizing Presentation & Discussions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 16 Oct 1980 1108-PDT
From: Chesley at SRI-KL
Subject: Forums of 1E6 people
Such a thing exists now, in the form of radio talk programs
(it's probably more like 1E3 people, but the potential is there for
1E6). It uses a point-to-point protocol (telephone) for input to a
central location, which then "broadcasts" the message to the mailing
list; quite an efficient scheme, actually. The format is often a
moderator plus one or more "experts"; questions or statements are
addressed to one of the experts, who then responds to it.
So, what changes will WORLD-NET technology tend to make to
this format? I see two main ones: (a) higher bandwidth (in terms of
messages per second, if not also the low level baud rate) will allow
a larger percentage of the public to generate comments/questions, no
doubt forcing some better form of message filtering; and (b) the mail
model, rather than conversation model, will tend to make the comments
better "thought out," and makes the form more amenable to longer term
discussions.
I would expect the following format: A "panel" of experts
carries on a discussion of some topic; comments from the mailing list
as a whole are directed to one of the members of the panel, who can
then forward it to the mailing, or not (providing the filtering).
I very seldom listen to radio talk programs, but when I have,
I've generally found the comments from the audience to be naive,
misinformed, and/or uninteresting. I hope WORLD-NET forums can do
better.
--Harry...
------------------------------
Date: 16 Oct 1980 14:21:04-PDT
From: sdcsvax!davidson at Berkeley
Subject: Handling large interest groups.
As long as contributions must be picked through linearly, then even if
abstracts are provided it will not be feasible to carry on digests or
interest groups like human-nets with very many people. The cloning-
voting system should work but suffers from the same problem as hier-
archic grouping of users, i.e., reinvention of the wheel and failing
to encounter material that would be of use.
Rather than group the users, why not group the material, i.e., let
the digests be in the form of a blackboard/database which can be
searched according to the usual semantic hierarchy/heterarchy/graph,
footnotes, author-supplied keywords, date, title, pattern searches
in title, abstract, etc? Users would simply add their comments into
the database, subject to reclassification by (human) network editors.
Entries would be rejected if not accompanied by descriptive 1-line
title, abstract, keywords, pull-date (if applicable), etc. As for
user browsing, I particularly like some of Ted Nelson's hypertext
ideas, as promoted in his book "Computer Lib/Dream Machines."
Greg
------------------------------
Date: 16 Oct 1980 0834-PDT
From: ROUNDS at OFFICE-3
Subject: Subject scanners
The thing that always makes me a little wary of software which
will scan and select "items of interest" for me is that the
specifications to decide what I am interested in, and all the
ways those topics could be expressed, would be so involved and
so difficult that I could never be sure it was really getting
everything I want, and not missing anything. So I would have
to visually scan the topics-list or abstracts myself anyway,
and there would be no value in having the intelligent scanning
program.
If your interests are really limited, and you actually want to
only get items which contain a reference to the exact word/string
"graphics" or "DNA" or whatever, or a number of them, sure you can
let the machine work like a clipping service for you. But I don't
know if I'm interested in a new topic or not until I look at the
initial discussion about it; after all, subject lines often have
little or nothing to do with what really is in the text, and, even
if they do, the ramifications and implications of a topic are often
what spark the most rewarding discussions. How could I specify such
things in advance?
I really feel that the normal way to use a large discussion group
(bigger than Human-Nets but smaller than 1E6) will have to include
a header or subject scan by the human user. No theoretical (much
less a realistic) scanning program could possibly do the job I do
when looking at such a list. Even then, I think that I would want
to still see all the text, just in case something shows up there
worth the effort. It may be an individual characteristic of mine,
though, as I see it many other areas in a similar fashion -- I want
to get to all the yard sales in my neighborhood, for example, even
though the vast majority have nothing of interest, just to be sure
I don't miss the rare treasure. I don't know how I could manage in
a 1E6 size net with that attitude. The deluge would overwhelm me,
and maybe it would burn out the compulsion eventually. If the
ratio of gold to dross is high enough, though, it would reinforce
it instead, and I'd just keep frantically falling farther behind.
Maybe Sturgeon's Law will save me.
Are those of you who are wanting a subject-scanner mail-reader
expecting it to do more than just pick out character strings
you've pre-selected? If so, what, precisely, do you expect it
to do? How can it be designed to make human-like correlations
and interpretations in your stead? (Is this one of the classic
AI problems? I'm not too familiar with the field, and I may be
restating stuff from your primers.)
--Will Martin
------------------------------
Date: 16 October 1980 14:33-EDT
From: Daniel L. Weinreb <dlw at MIT-AI>
Subject: 10E6 person mailing lists
I agree with Dave Dyer and KWH that the right thing is to have a mail
reading system that creates digests and manages cross-referencing for
you. But, as Marvin Minsky pointed out in a recent lecture here,
current systems to do such things work in a very crude manner, usually
by searching for keywords. A good mail perusing program would really
have to understand the mail and figure out from your descriptions what
you are interested in. I think this is an excellent and clear example
of how artificial intelligence can benefit people. Imagine how helpful
it would be for a scientist or physician to have such a program for
perusing back-issues of professional journals.
------------------------------
REM@MIT-MC 10/16/80 07:25:55 Re: World-net clogging
Unfortunately there are sometimes narrow specific issues where more
than 100 people really want to all have an effect on the decision,
like who should be commander in chief of USA military from 1981
through 1984, or what type of TDD should be provided free by Cali-
fornia TPC. When more than 100 people insist on all discussing
EXACTLY the same subject, you can no longer subdivide them based
on different interest profiles, and you may have to resort to
some cloning or committee method. Thus while interest profiles
(individually-optimized digests for each reader) solve much of
the problem, much is left unsolved.
------------------------------
REM@MIT-MC 10/16/80 07:18:59
Re: 100 vs. 1E6 people on HUMAN-NETS (Reed.ES@PARC-MAXC)
I'd like to rebut one point, that we should discuss issues only,
not details, leaving details to private communication (probably by
FTP of cited file rather by than burdening the author with the task
of mailing details to the many persons asking for them). If details
are of interest to 20% of the mailing list, it is easier to just
stick the details into the digest like KLH did with TDD hearings,
and have 80% of the readers skip over that section with mail-reading
macros (RMAIL makes this particularily easy if Undigestify Rmail
Message is done first), than to put a pointer to a file and have
20% of the readers be forced to run FTP and hassle with MIT-AI or
whatever host being down at the time or with wrong byte size or FTP
mode or whatever (many people don't even have FTP privileges, such
as some at PARC-MAXC that I know of). When the expected readership
drops below 5%, however, then pointing to a file would seem to be
optimal. Between, I don't know what the optimum cutoff would be. Of
course in a real HUMAN-NET (WorldNET) indirect file pointers could
be set up more transparently to the user, so that if the host
containing the text isn't up the FTP can be queued and the user
notified when the file is locally online. In such cases perhaps
the entire digest could be distributed in pointer form except for
messages of less than one screenful. (Perhaps the first screenful
of each message or file could be sent, typically containing an
abstract or a catcher as in professional journal articles and
newspaper articles respectively. The user could request the full
text of any message/article that looked interesting, or the table
of contents for really large articles, or certain sections only
after seeing the table of contents.)
------------------------------
RWK@MIT-MC 10/16/80 05:44:41 Re: Issues vs Details
I'm not at all sure I understand REED.ES's distinction between issues
and details, wanting to forego the later for the former. Issues have
details. There is a distinction between detailed statements and vague
mumblings, and frankly I prefer to get the details. It is precisely
the *LACK* of such detailed reporting as was exemplified by KLH's
series on the TDD issue that has continually frustrated me in reading
newspapers. It is my fondest dream that someday electronic communica-
tion will make proceedings and testimony and helpful indexing thereof
available to me, to whatever level of detail I might need to answer my
curiosity on an issue.
Detail runs under several other names, as well. Facts, supporting
info, reasons, explanations...
------------------------------
Date: 16 Oct 1980 at 1039-PDT
From: obrien at Rand-Unix (Mike O'Brien)
Subject: PLATO and representative democracy
The fellow who remarked on replacing the beneficent anarchy
of current computer mailing lists with a "representative democracy"
touched a nerve, particularly when he said "Plato would have
approved". This reminded me of the PLATO system, on which I worked
for many years. This largely successful CAI system is now organized
in much the same way, with "site directors" responsible for each
group of terminals. This person dols out disk space, turns off games
at that site, determines which accounts can run at the site, etc.
What this system succeeded in doing more than anything else
was to demonstrate just what the difference is between a real
representative democracy and an oligarchy. Never in my life have
I seen such backbiting, griping, and pure psychological warfare
as this system perpetrated among its users! Most of these users
were computer-naive to begin with, and hence had no idea what
other systems were like (looked down on them rather provincially,
since most PLATO utilities were FAR better designed than the
equivalents elsewhere, even on this net).
Those who want to know what it's like to manage lists, etc.
with several hundred VERY ACTIVE users would do well to study the
years of PLATO's development. Moral: make sure your representative
are truly elected, with power of recall!
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂17-Oct-80 0949 FFL CALL FROM PROFESSOR SHUBICH
To: JMC, FFL
Said he would like to drop by to see you. May try to do so late this
morning or about 2:30 this afternoon. He is moving about and there is no
way to give him a message.
2:30 is fine for Shubik.
∂17-Oct-80 1001 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
You have the 10 copies of the FOL Manual. Connie tells me that she is
waiting your OK before printing any more as there is a possibility that
it will be revised? I have a man from the U. of Hawaii who wants a copy
of it. Will this revision be undertaken soon?
∂17-Oct-80 1313 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Please call Vivian at State Farm Insurance re insurance on the Mazda.
56 225 2312.
∂17-Oct-80 1344 Marimont at SRI-KL Plans for this year
Date: 17 Oct 1980 1344-PDT
From: Marimont at SRI-KL
Subject: Plans for this year
To: jmc at SU-AI
cc: Marimont
As you may recall, we discussed last spring the possibility of your serving as
my research supervisor as I work towards my PhD in the Electrical Engineering
department. At the time, I promised to keep you posted on my activities this
year, so here is my first report. This quarter I am taking courses and study-
ing for the EE qualifying exam which I plan to take in January. Tom Binford
tells me that there is a good chance I can get a research assistantship in the
AI Lab winter and spring quarters in my field of interest, which is low-level
machine vision; and I plan to take a few courses in those quarters as well. My
courses for this quarter and later in the year are intended to sharpen my math-
ematical skills and to help me acquire some competence in signal processing.
I'll let you know when I have more news to report, which I hope will be when Tom
tells me that I will definitely have a r.a.'ship next quarter. Also, please let
me know if you would prefer more or less detail in my next report.
Thanks for your help.
Dave
-------
∂17-Oct-80 1410 TOB
To: JMC, BIS
∂17-Oct-80 1406 TOB IBM GRANT
I suggest that the grant be used to develop
computer graphics teaching and research program
within the robotics group. If interested, I
will submit a plan.
Tom
∂17-Oct-80 1615 FFL
To: "@SEMINA[1,FFL]" at SU-AI
The speaker for the Seminar (CS229) on Thursday, October 23, at 4:15 p.m.,
in Room 301, Jacks Hall, will be Jon Doyle.
TOPICS IN NON-MONOTONIC LOGIC
After briefly reviewing the basics of non-monotonic logic, I hope to
discuss some subset of the following topics: a non-monotonic logic
based on the logic of provability, alternate formalizations of
non-monotonic logic using infinitary logics, classification of theory
trajectories, logics of incomplete information and counterfactuals,
semantical questions, conclusion theory, and the non-monotonic nature
of explanations.
∂17-Oct-80 1645 RPG Pratt
I fixed his problem. I now work part time for CSD-CF as a
system programmer, so things of this nature are in my realm.
-rpg+
∂17-Oct-80 1900 JMC*
calculator sales slip
∂20-Oct-80 1613 RPG Renaming
Complete. There are some .REi and MEi files that I didn't touch.
The Aiello.* was there already.
-rpg-
Many thanks (unless there was a disaster, in which case grrrr).
∂20-Oct-80 1938 DEK reminder
CS204 meets 11am in 380U (math basement), Tuesday and Thursday
∂21-Oct-80 0159 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) article and voyager
Date: 21 OCT 1980 0458-EDT
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: article and voyager
To: POURNELLE at MIT-MC, JMC at SU-AI
Excellent. On Saturday 8 November will be BIG PARTY here at my
house with Mr. Heinlein, Jack Williamson, Niven, Pohl, Haldeman,
Foster, Kingsbury, Forward, and lotsa others. Friday 7
NBovember has similar party at Larry Niven house. You are
invited to either/both. John gribbin of New Scientist will also
be here, staying as house guest with usover weekend and into
next week to about 13 November.
Looking forward to article, which I'll buy.
Best, Jerry
∂21-Oct-80 1159 Solomon at MIT-Multics (Richard Jay Solomon) tape
Date: 21 October 1980 14:58 edt
From: Solomon at MIT-Multics (Richard Jay Solomon)
Subject: tape
Sender: Solomon.Datanet at MIT-Multics
To: jmc at SU-AI
We forgot to discuss the details of putting files on tape periodically
for the news storage. I suspect at my current rate i would need to dump
files about every two weeks. Retrieval would be quite rare, unles
somebody started a project to use these files for news analysis.
richard
∂21-Oct-80 1327 Oppen at PARC-MAXC JACM article
Date: 21 Oct 1980 12:33 PDT
From: Oppen at PARC-MAXC
Subject: JACM article
To: JMC at SU-AI
That is the appropriate paper; it has since appeared in the JACM, so the
reference should read:
%3Oppen, Derek%1 [1980]%*: "Reasoning
about Recursively Defined Data Structures",
in %2Journal of the ACM, Vol. 27, No. 3, July 1980, pp. 403-411%1.
------------------------------------------------------------
∂21-Oct-80 1717 RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
Date: 21 OCT 1980 2015-EDT
From: RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
To: DOYLE at MIT-AI
CC: JMC at MIT-AI
I tried to copy McDermott's paper today,
but Ms. Larson would not let me have an auditron
and I don't know where to find a resistor around here.
Stallman is a guest and can xerox courtesy the ARPA contract or
my NSF.
∂21-Oct-80 2326 RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
Date: 22 OCT 1980 0224-EDT
From: RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
To: jmc at SU-AI
I have been reading a book that Doyle lent me:
The Unprovability of Consistency, by Boolos.
Have yo read it? It's about a modal system called G
in which the box means "provable in arithmetic using Godelization".
∂22-Oct-80 0828 CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE Tenured Faculty Meeting
Date: 22 Oct 1980 0824-PDT
From: CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE
Subject: Tenured Faculty Meeting
To: csl.fb at SU-SCORE, buchanan at SUMEX-AIM, or.dantzig at SU-SCORE,
csd.feigenbaum at SU-SCORE, rwg at SU-AI, ghg at SU-AI, jgh at SU-AI,
dek at SU-AI, jmc at SU-AI, csl.ejm at SU-SCORE, zm at SU-AI, jeo at SU-AI,
tar at SU-AI, csd.ullman at SU-SCORE, jhw at SU-AI, tw at SU-AI
A meeting of the tenured faculty has been scheduled for Nov. 4, 2PM. The
meeting will be held in Rm 252 MJH. Please advise me (csd.jeanie) if you
are unable to attend.
-------
While Bill Gosper (RWG) has indeed been around a long time as a visitor
and occasional computer user, I must have missed the meeting last year
at which he was given tenure in that position, and what did poor Bob
Floyd (RWF) do to lose his? Who wrote Gosper's long form, and what is
his exact title?
By the way, what's on the agenda for the Nov. 4 meeting?
∂22-Oct-80 0952 CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE
Date: 22 Oct 1980 0951-PDT
From: CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE
To: JMC at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 22-Oct-80 0933-PDT
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I have sent the message to RWF.
I do not know Bill Gosper and will send another message to him...my mistake.
-------
∂22-Oct-80 0958 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE meeting
Date: 22 Oct 1980 0954-PDT
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Subject: meeting
To: jmc at SU-AI
I want to discuss Gio's case, and also the possiblility of hiring
Teitelbaum from Cornell as a teaching person.
-------
∂22-Oct-80 1016 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Michael Moritz of TIME in LA called to ask for appointment this Friday
to talk about a story on robotics. He is seeing Tom Binford that day
and wanted to speak with you also. He will be calling back this
afternoon after 3 p.m. 213 273 1530
∂22-Oct-80 1043 CSD.GOLUB at SU-SCORE Re: Tenured Faculty Meeting
Date: 22 Oct 1980 1037-PDT
From: CSD.GOLUB at SU-SCORE
Subject: Re: Tenured Faculty Meeting
To: CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE, csl.fb at SU-SCORE, buchanan at SUMEX-AIM,
or.dantzig at SU-SCORE, csd.feigenbaum at SU-SCORE, rwg at SU-AI,
ghg at SU-AI, jgh at SU-AI, dek at SU-AI, jmc at SU-AI, csl.ejm at SU-SCORE,
zm at SU-AI, jeo at SU-AI, tar at SU-AI, csd.ullman at SU-SCORE, jhw at SU-AI,
tw at SU-AI
cc: CSD.GOLUB at SU-SCORE
In-Reply-To: Your message of 22-Oct-80 0824-PDT
Sorry,but iwill not be able to attend.GENE GOLUB
-------
∂22-Oct-80 1525 FWH PV+A Seminar
To: "@SEM.DIS[SEM,VER]" at SU-AI
PROGRAM VERIFICATION AND ANALYSIS SEMINAR
PLACE: ERL 237
TIME: 2:30 p.m., Tuesday, October 28
SPEAKER: Wolfgang Polak, Stanford University
TITLE: Inductive Assertion Proofs Based on Denotational Semantics
ABSTRACT:
A theory of partial correctness proofs is formulated in Scott's logic of
computable functions. This theory allows mechanical construction of
verification conditions solely on the basis of a denotational language
definition. Extensionally these conditions, the resulting proofs, and the
required program augmentation are similar to those of Hoare style proofs;
conventional input, output, and invariant assertions in a first order
assertion language are required. The theory applies to most any sequential
language defined by a continuation semantics; for example, there are no
restrictions on aliasing or side-effects. Aspects of "static semantics",
such as type and declaration constaints, which are expressed in the
denotational definition are validated as part of the verification condition
generation process. This talk will be an extended version of a similar talk
to be presented at the 1981 POPL.
∂22-Oct-80 1614 REM via SU-TIP Microfiche output
I've been wanting for some time to try listing my SU-AI files on microfiche
so I could refer to them conveniently and even carry them all around with
me instead of having reams of paper occupying my apartment. Outside vendors
generally have a minimum of $100/month which would be unacceptable for my
sporatic low-volume usage. [Insert this after first sentence: I hoped that
if it works ok for me I could provide a service for other SU-AI and SCORE
people, feeding their files via magtape through whatever I have set up,
and then distributing the fiche to the various customers, charging them
a fair share of my account charges plus a small income for me for the
work it takes to courier stuff back and forth.] Yesterday I applied for
a CIT account, but they have decided not to give me the account unless I
sign a statement that I will never resell to anybody else, not even
authorized SU-AI and SCORE people, and that I pay a 65% surcharge for
"non-Stanford-affiliated" use. I find the conditions unacceptable, so
have abandoned the attempt. If you know of any outside vendor who can
handle 7-track magtapes and who doesn't have a $100 minimum charge, or if
you have any ideas for bypassing the CIT rules to establish a microfiche
liason account between SU-AI and CIT, please advise. [Insert after $100:
per month]
You should send the above message to Ralph. Since, as I understand it,
you are doing some work for Ralph, we could arrange an internal account
for microfiching stuff relevant to that work, and you could pay normal
rates for adding some stuff of your own. Eventually, we will be able
to ship them files for microfiching by Ethernet. I don't see anyway
that Stanford is likely to let you make a business using Stanford
facilities, because the Stanford facilities are subsidized in various
ways, tax paying competitors could rightly object. Do you have
a microfiche reader? I have one reader in the office and one at home,
and I find it a pain in the neck. If you don't have one but have
some fiches to read, I will be glad to lend you a reader, so you can
see how you like it.
I have given up being boss of SAIL, so I am not the right person to
whom you should present such propositions.
∂23-Oct-80 0332 100 : REM via SU-TIP
My goodness, if LES is completely retired from SU-AI, and you are here but
not the director of SU-AI, then who is? Denny Brown or somebody like that?
The SAIL computer is now part of the computer science department's
facilities, and Ralph Gorin is director of these facilities. To the
extent that the AI Lab exists apart from that, I am still the
director.
∂23-Oct-80 0343 POURNE@MIT-MC
From: POURNE@MIT-MC
Date: 10/23/80 06:43:13
POURNE@MIT-MC 10/23/80 06:43:13
To: JMC at MIT-MC
Putting together final ms of freedom book, hoping your
contribution arrives before Close of Business Monday, which is
when I GOTTA mail that thng.
JEP
It was mailed Monday. If it hasn't arrived Friday, call me and
I'll send another Federal Express or something like that.
∂23-Oct-80 0822 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Ulam is at U. of Florida, Math Dept. He is in and out of his office
there. He is in a meeting at the moment which should be over within
20 minutes and may then be back in his office. I left him a message
that you were trying to reach him and gave your phone number here.
∂23-Oct-80 1400 JMC*
Time magazine.
∂23-Oct-80 1406 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Yes, Betty says she would like to have the flat boxes if you can get
them over here somehow. There are always people needing good storage-
moving boxes of that sort.
∂23-Oct-80 1542 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE CIS
Date: 23 Oct 1980 1530-PDT
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Subject: CIS
To: jmc at SU-AI
Have you been getting noticesof the CIS executive committee meetings?
I confirmed that you are on the committee, and it met today (and every
other thursday @11AM in McCullough 240.)
-------
No I have not been getting notices.
∂23-Oct-80 1557 CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE Tenured Faculty Meeting
Date: 23 Oct 1980 1555-PDT
From: CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE
Subject: Tenured Faculty Meeting
To: csl.fb at SU-SCORE, buchanan at SUMEX-AIM, or.dantzig at SU-SCORE,
csd.feigenbaum at SU-SCORE, rwf at SU-AI, ghg at SU-AI, jgh at SU-AI,
dek at SU-AI, jmc at SU-AI, csl.ejm at SU-SCORE, zm at SU-AI, jeo at SU-AI,
tar at SU-AI, csd.ullman at SU-SCORE, tw at SU-AI
A request has been made to move the meeting time. 1PM and 4PM are possible
start times. If you are unable to meet at these times, please advise me
(csd.jeanie).
-------
∂23-Oct-80 1657 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Date: 23 Oct 1980 1654-PDT
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
To: JMC at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 23-Oct-80 1553-PDT
aha! You might want to point this out to Jim Gibbons.
-------
∂24-Oct-80 0251 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #114
Date: 24 OCT 1980 0547-EDT
From: DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II)
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #114
To: HUMAN-NETS at MIT-AI
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Friday, 24 Oct 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 114
Today's Topics: Communicating via Network - Interest Groups,
Computers and the Deaf - DEAFnet history
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 23 October 1980 0951-EDT (Thursday)
From: Hank.Walker at CMU-10A (C410DW60)
Subject: network privacy
I guess I missed the idea of "Computer Dating", a storehouse of
interest summaries. The only potential problem that I see with
it is that I don't know what all my interests are. I have to see
it to decide if I'm interested. Five years ago, I didn't even
know what DEC stood for, and now I work there. I wasn't even
very interested in electronics, I was going to be a physicist.
Besides resumes of personal interests, maybe summaries of ongoing
conversations could be submitted to the clearing house. Something
like APNews or NYTNews summaries, although the problem of searching
a giant database again comes up. There's no getting away from the
problem that if you don't know what you're looking for, then all
the keywords in the world won't help you. Perhaps what we need
is some AI program that duplicates a person's personality, so it
would know what he'd be interested in.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 80 11:01-EDT
From: breunig at DNGC
Subject: Some history of the DEAFnets
Since I have seen little reference to DEAFNETs and TELEMAIL forgive
me if I become verbose and go into some history.
The first true DEAFNET was started by the Deaf Community Center in
Framingham, Massachusetts three years ago with a grant from HEW (now
HHS). The Deaf Community Center purchased 50 M-43 ASCII terminals
with built in Bell 103 modems and distributed them to individuals
and to organizations serving deaf people in a limited geographical
area around Boston Mass. DCI contracted with BBN for hardware and
software, the latter being the BBN "Hermes" language. As the group
became adept at using the terminals and HERMES the capability was
expanded to include several bulletin boards such as community news,
lists of captioned movies, health nots, national, world and local
news, weather reports and so on. The system was working quite well,
but was limited by the number of ASCII terminals ( I was partici-
pating for a while with an ASCII terminal that BBN loaned to me,
presumably because I was then executive director of TDI
( Teletypewriter for the Deaf, Inc. ) Eventually BBN wanted their
terminal back. )
Since the original grant had not been renewed more than twice, and
since HEW has published a request for proposals ( which was later
granted to SRI) DCI and BBN lost their contract.
SRI, with its new grant, set up SRI.DEAFNET in the Washington, DC
area, with another group around San Francisco. These two groups
eventually numbered between 250 and 300 individuals and organiza-
tions. The beauty of the system was that individuals in SRI.DEAFNET
could communicate with those on the DCI.DEAFNET (via San Francisco).
Since DCI had all these terminals and no place to go, they looked
into getting TELENET, and found out about TELEMAIL. The upshot
is that DCI now has a temporary experiment going with GTE whereby
those people with ASCII Bell 103 capability can hook onto TELEMAIL.
For the purpose of the experiment the service is free, but limited
to non-prime time hours and two hours a week of on-line time. If
the experiment is judged a success about the first of the year,
access will be continued for a fee.
Most of the original Boston group plus some others in Washington,
New York, Wisconsin, and California who have the ASCII 103
capability are now learning to use TELEMAIL with some manuals
provided by GTE TELENET.
It is interesting to compare the software of SRI.DEAFNET and
DCI.DEAFNET but that is another story.
latham breunig
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂24-Oct-80 0829 TOB Brooks
I would like to raise the possibility of an assistant
professorship in CS or EE for Rod Brooks in Sept.
What is the possibility? How do we go about getting
information if feasible?
∂24-Oct-80 0855 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) REQUEST FOR ABSTRACT
Date: 24 Oct 1980 0852-PDT
From: CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai)
Subject: REQUEST FOR ABSTRACT
To: JMC at SU-AI
John,
I asked Dot to collect the abstract data. Since you were on
sabbatical last year, you didn't have the background for the request.
The ASSU requests abstract information for all 100 level courses. The
abstracts are very helpful in answering inqueries about the courses.
Most people want more information than is supplied in the Courses and
Degrees.
In order to be able to answer questions about 200+ level courses
and therefore head off many calls to the faculty, I suggested at a
faculty meeting that I be given abstracts for all courses. There was
general agreement. Of course, it is entirely voluntary for 200+ courses.
If you would like for me to provide this service for you, I'm happy to.
If you want to send more information, it can be sent on-line.
Carolyn
-------
∂24-Oct-80 0951 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
TThe material for Ulam should be sent to Los Alamos or the U. of Florida?
University of Florida, and I'll write a cover letter.
∂24-Oct-80 1508 DBL Visitor from USAF Office of Sci Research
To: JMC at SU-AI, BUCHANAN at SUMEX-AIM, DBL at SU-AI, TW at SU-AI,
TOB at SU-AI, CSD.GENESERETH at SU-SCORE
Major James Kreer, USAF, of their Office of Scientific Research,
has asked to visit Stanford on Nov 10, 1-5 pm. Jeff Ullman
has agreed to this, and wishes us to spend some time with Kreer,
whose major objective is to familiarize himself with our AI research.
Jeanne Rosenow will coordinate his schedule, so please send in
specific times, people's names, etc. to her.
Thank you all. If you have any questions, please ask Jeanne or
Jeff Ullman directly; I don't know anything more about this visitor.
Doug Lenat
∂25-Oct-80 0331 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 25 OCT 1980 0630-EDT
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: JMC at SU-AI
Paper has arrived. Have done the intro to it. Whole book off
to publisher dawn Monday. JEP
∂25-Oct-80 1253 VRP via Dialnet Abstract
Proofs Without Axioms
V. R. Pratt
Proof systems have invariably combined syntax and semantics into the one
mechanism, the inference rule. Thus modus ponens has two properties, one
syntactic, one semantic. The syntactic property is that an instance of
modus ponens is easily recognized. The semantic property is that modus
ponens preserves validity. I will discuss proof systems where syntax
is decoupled from semantics. A significant consequence of such decoupling
is that computationally convenient proof systems can be more readily
developed. In particular the question of whether a particular proof is
sound can be considered separately from whether it spells out enough
details to be comprehensible to a hearer of any given degree of intelligence.
As one would hope soundness remains an absolute concept while comprehensibility
in this approach is relative.
∂27-Oct-80 0912 JJW Disks
Thanks for your offer, but Ralph Gorin has told me that it would be inconvenient
to other users of the UDPs if we kept one mounted for periods of time while
testing our programs. I'm now working on SCORE, using an algorithm which will
hopefully not take too many disk accesses.
∂27-Oct-80 1306 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE Re: Solvency of computer facility
Date: 27 Oct 1980 1043-PST
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Subject: Re: Solvency of computer facility
To: JMC at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 26-Oct-80 2114-PST
Our initial idea was that we might be unable to sell all we had to
offer if we didn't sell the facilities as a bundle. So far, we have
been proved wrong; demand exceeds supply. We are going to try unbundling,
and if it doesn't work, reconsider the matter (quickly).
-------
∂27-Oct-80 1310 CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE Tenured Faculty Meeting
Date: 27 Oct 1980 1201-PST
From: CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE
Subject: Tenured Faculty Meeting
To: tenured-faculty: ;
Due to a flurry of "can't make it"'s, the meeting time cannot be changed. I
therefore invite you to meet at 2PM Tues. Nov. 4 in 252. The agenda consists
primarily of two cases: Gio Wiederhold and Tim Teitelbaum. I propose no action
be taken at this meeting. Rather, I seek discussion of what actions we might
take if the cases to be prepared warrant it.
A portfolio of Gio's work and a resume and selected work to Teitelbaum are
available in 214.
---J. Ullman
-------
∂27-Oct-80 1311 CSD.BSCOTT at SU-SCORE ARPA FUNDING
Date: 27 Oct 1980 1134-PST
From: CSD.BSCOTT at SU-SCORE
Subject: ARPA FUNDING
To: JMC at SU-AI, CSD.Ullman at SU-SCORE, CSL.Lantz at SU-SCORE
I heard this morning that the HPP ARPA funding has been approved and we should
receive the modification next week. I don't have any definite word on the
McCarthy et al contract, but we should hear something soon.
Betty
-------
∂27-Oct-80 1458 SOL via MIT-TIP emergency project
Ithiel just got back today and we had a chance to discuss your idea of
cooperating on a project for ARPA for a cheap and easy to use terminal
whichg can be used in a natinal emergency. he thinks such a cooperative
effort would be a fine idea. I am to prepare a shrot two or three page outline of
possible study areas in the next vfew days and get back to you.
Meanwhile, if you have any further ideas send thenm along. Ithiel is
out of twon again and won't be back until Thursday. After
that we will have more time to work on this.
richard
∂27-Oct-80 1533 ADMIN.LIBRARY at SU-SCORE Fenstad's General recursion theory
Date: 27 Oct 1980 1530-PST
From: ADMIN.LIBRARY at SU-SCORE
Subject: Fenstad's General recursion theory
To: McCarthy at SU-AI
We have a request for this book from another patron. Our check-out policy
is 4 weeks unless needed by someone else at which time we recall after
two weeks. Harry Llull Math/CS Library
-------
OK, I'll bring it in today.
∂28-Oct-80 0104 POURNE@MIT-MC
From: POURNE@MIT-MC
Date: 10/28/80 04:03:28
POURNE@MIT-MC 10/28/80 04:03:28
To: JMC at MIT-MC
Book went off with your piece in it, contract sent you US Snail
today...
JEP
Well, I could have made it better with more time, but considering how
difficult it was to make it jell, it's just as well there wasn't more
time considering everything else I have to do. Thanks for your patience.
∂28-Oct-80 0110 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 28 OCT 1980 0410-EDT
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: JMC at SU-AI
Yo.
Will you be down for Saturn?
JEP
Well, I'm torn between coming down for the parties and coming down for
the actual show. I accepted the invitation for the 12th that somehow
appeared, so I suppose that would take priority, and I have to teach
in between, though, come to think of it, I could schedule an exam
for Tuesday the 11th, but then I probably shouldn't take that much
time. Anyway, I'll dither a while longer.
∂28-Oct-80 1112 Nilsson at SRI-KL Meeting
Date: 28 Oct 1980 1112-PST
From: Nilsson at SRI-KL
Subject: Meeting
To: JMC at SU-AI
cc: Nilsson
John, I'm in Wash dc this week. Do you want to have lunch
someday next week? Any day but Friday is ok with me. --Nils
-------
∂28-Oct-80 2255 ME on TTY77 (at TV-66) 2255
You can pick up your DM anytime. It is all fixed. One of the +5v wires
had a loose connection (turns out to be a common problem, which conceivably
could return, since the connectors are rather flakey.
∂29-Oct-80 0019 ME new DMs
Of the four new DMs, one is ready to go be checked out (as soon as we
get a property tag on it), another probably will be ready late Wednesday,
another has a slight problem (horizontal wobble) and the other one hasn't
been upgraded yet with the UDS modem. If you want to give out the one
(or two by tomorrow) DM(s) now, let me know. Do you have plans for all
four, or are any being donated to the "pool" (perhaps Ralph and you
have discussed and/or agreed where these DMs will go)?
∂29-Oct-80 0806 TOB ROBOT WIREWRAPPING
I have two students in CS227 who want to do robot
wirewrapping as a project. I intend to encourage
follow-ons. Are you willing to buy a wirewrap
gun? The type and price aren't determined yet.
Sure I'll buy it, even though I'm not rich these days.
∂29-Oct-80 0936 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
You have been very recently appointed advisor to Pat Tharp, a Math Science
major, who stopped by this morning to try to see you. He will stop by
again today about 2:30, hoping to see you. If that is not alright, would
Thursday at l p.m. be alright?
∂29-Oct-80 1333 TOB
To: JMC at SU-AI, csd.ullman at SU-SCORE
I feel very uneasy when I read about kicking out Baker and Blicher.
We are starting to feel beset on all sides. I propose that 022 be
reserved for robotics, and that we accept some unofficial occupants at
the sufferance of official occupants.
We are in a particular bind because we have a large fraction
of people who are not in the department but who contribute
heavily to research. The current formula does not provide
for research explicityly.
During the time until some reasonable solution can be
made, I think it might be reasonable to have a room
as a vision lab. We have people from other depts
who spend a lot of time here but haven't any place to
work.
A related request would be to have jungle space like Luckham's.
∂29-Oct-80 1925 Pool at MIT-Multics Crisis communications
From: Pool at MIT-Multics
Date: 10/29/80 2225-est
Subject: Crisis communications
To: JMC at SU-AI
Message-ID: [MIT-Multics]1.1.BBBJKfHjbMXlbC
Richard Solomon reported his conversations with you during his
recent trip to Calif. Your suggestion about examining the uses
and implications of $50 terminals is right on the button.
We should suggest to ARPA some joint effort in which we
at this end would look at the uses and congestion problems
with their use while you look at the hardware possibilities,
or some such arrangements. I'll phone you
during the coming week to talk about it. Talking still has
advantages over messages.
Ithiel Pool
Fine, let's talk, but there may be some misunderstandings. I said
$500 not $50 (perhaps just a misprint) and that with a substantial
market. Also I have some doubts that what should be a commercial
product will end up having its development subsidized by ARPA. I
will be around most of the time this week and next. I can be reached
at 415 497-4430 most afternoons and 415 857-0672 in the morning
except Tuesday and Thursday and most evenings. Not today, however.
∂30-Oct-80 1039 FWH PV+A Seminar
To: "@SEM.DIS[SEM,VER]" at SU-AI
PROGRAM VERIFICATION AND ANALYSIS SEMINAR
PLACE: ERL 237
TIME: 2:30 p.m., Tuesday, November 4
SPEAKER: Larry Robinson, Ford Aerospace and Communications Corp.
TITLE: HDM: Overview, Decomposition, and Design
ABSTRACT:
HDM (Hierarchical Development Methodology) is an integrated set
consisting of concepts, a computational model, languages and tools.
It is intended to support all stages of the software development
process: conceptualization, decomposition, formal specification,
data representation, implementation, and formal verification. The
emphasis of HDM is to apply advanced concepts of software engineering
to large, real software systems in an enforceable way. It has
been used successfully in several large systems efforts. This
talk consists of an overview of HDM and a discussion, with case
studies, of the use of HDM in the early stages of system development.
∂30-Oct-80 1415 JMC*
prepare lecture
∂30-Oct-80 1439 Konolige at SRI-KL (Kurt Konolige) Re: lecture in seminar
Date: 30 Oct 1980 1431-PST
From: Konolige at SRI-KL (Kurt Konolige)
Subject: Re: lecture in seminar
To: JMC at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 27-Oct-80 1407-PST
John, I think I'd like a little more time; this week I have to
give the DB seminar, and the weekend will be pretty busy. --kk
-------
OK, then I take it you can give the lecture given more time. I would
like to do it before people have forgotten about non-monotonic
reasoning, but I want you to take whatever time is required to
prepare. We can discuss how much time is required this afternoon
if you plan to come.
∂30-Oct-80 1533 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) Textbooks for winter
Date: 30 Oct 1980 1532-PST
From: CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai)
Subject: Textbooks for winter
To: CSD.Schreiber at SU-SCORE, CSD.Lenat at SU-SCORE,
CSD.Genesereth at SU-SCORE, JMC at SU-AI
I'll be gone from Nov. 5 - 12. Would like to get textbook orders in
before I go.
Carolyn
-------
There will be no text for my winter course though there may be some
notes.
∂31-Oct-80 0046 ME imlac and the system
To: JMC
CC: ROY, ROB
∂30-Oct-80 2249 JMC imlac
To: ME, ROB, ROY
It didn't come up when the system came up this evening. Is there
anything SYSTEMatic about this?
ME - Nothing changed in the system that should have had any effect.
∂31-Oct-80 1106 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
I am taking personal leave this afternoon to look after some
business.
∂31-Oct-80 1118 Stan at SRI-KL Knowledge & Action Seminar
Date: 31 Oct 1980 1120-PST
From: Stan at SRI-KL
Subject: Knowledge & Action Seminar
To: jmc at SAIL
cc: stan
Are any slots still available for speakers? I would be interested in
presenting some ideas on "formalizing rationality." While
philosophers ("Logic of Decision and Action") and mathematical
economists ("Utility Theory," etc.) have been interested in this
question for a long time, I would like to sketch out what a theory of
rational behavior might look like in a computation-theoretic
framework. In particular, I would like to raise the question of
whether it is possible to define a rationality predicate so that, for
example, we could formally verify of a program that it was rational
relative to a class of possible inputs. In the talk I will present a
few alternative definitions of such a predicate, introduce the notions
of subjective & objective rationality, and relate these ideas to work
in AI on the ascription of mental states to machines.
--Stan Rosenschein (STAN @ SRI-KL)
-------
Since I plan to continue the seminar next quarter, there is certainly
time. However, it may be worthwhile to do it this quarter, but I
don't have the schedule yet.
∂31-Oct-80 1559 ARG
John - Hopefully you've had a chance to take a look at my thesis proposal
(in PROPOS.AL[1,arg]). Maybe we could get together sometime next
week to talk about it & whether you would be willing to be my third
reader. I'm free any afternoon after 1:30, except Wednesday when I'm
busy til 3:30. When would be best for you?
thanks,
Ron
∂03-Nov-80 0038 POURNE@MIT-MC
From: POURNE@MIT-MC
Date: 11/03/80 02:53:57
POURNE@MIT-MC 11/03/80 02:53:57
To: JMC at MIT-MC
I keep seeing files referenced over your way that would be worthwhile
to read. Any news on possibility of getting me an account? I am not
a heavy user, and once in a while I provide enough information
on documentation to pay for my upkeep, or so they seem to think
at MIT.
Saturn parties look to be great. Your essay and freedom book went off
last week. You get paid when they accept book, which isn't (I hope)
long.
JEP
∂03-Nov-80 1047 FFL CHAIRING A GRADUATE ORAL EXAMINATION
To: JMC, FFL
Ann Mayo called to ask if you would chair the exam for an aeronatics
student, Paul Stoltz, on Wednesday, November l2, 4:l5 p.m., for/
Professor DeBra. Told her one of us would call her back. 7-3056.
OK, I'll chair it. Please call and put it in my calendar.
∂03-Nov-80 1307 Nilsson at SRI-KL Meeting
Date: 3 Nov 1980 1307-PST
From: Nilsson at SRI-KL
Subject: Meeting
To: JMC at SU-AI
cc: Nilsson
John, How about lunch this Wednesday (Nov. 5) to talk about
your book? --Nils
-------
Fine. How about Faculty club at 12:15?
Please make a reservation for two for Wednesday at 12:15 at the Faculty Club.
∂03-Nov-80 1326 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Ms. Mayo who called about your chairming the oral for the aeronautics student
said that another professor had said he could not take care of another date but
offered to handled Nov. l2, and she had accepted his offer before I called. She
thanked you for your willingness to help.
∂03-Nov-80 1543 Nilsson at SRI-KL (Response to message)
Date: 3 Nov 1980 1535-PST
From: Nilsson at SRI-KL
Subject: (Response to message)
To: JMC at SU-AI
cc: NILSSON
Wed. at 12:15 is fine with me. See you then at the Faculty Club. -Nils
(Actually, Tioga ought to pay for lunch--can that happen at the Faculty Club?)
-------
∂03-Nov-80 1633 REM
What happened (re spirit of chess challenger 7), somebody mate in 4 ?
I offered a prize for the fastest mates, and the deadline was the
end of October, and the prize was won by Alan Siegel, and I'm presenting
it tomorrow - all of $10. The best mate was six moves, I believe.
∂03-Nov-80 2144 ROD Thesis progress
To: JMC at SU-AI, DBL at SU-AI
I thought I should let you, as a member of my reading committee, know
what progress I'm making on a thesis. I have left a copy of a paper
I am writing with Binford in your Jacks mail box. The part that is there
was written by me rather than Binford, though I have incorporated his
suggestions after a first draft. I plan to implement the remaining parts
of Acronym in the next six weeks (the unimplemented parts described in
section 5), then run it on some images over xmas, and if all goes well
take my orals in January. The thesis would cover the material of sections
two, three and four of the current paper, section five plus the results
of the forthcoming implementation, my earlier work on the descriptive
algorithms referenced in the paper, and the results of tests on images,
line drawings, and perhaps some illusory figures to show its weaknesses.
Also there would be a small section on the images interpreted by an earlier
version of Acronym.
Any suggestions would be welcome.
Rod
∂03-Nov-80 2355 ME two DMs ready
I've told JD that he can pick up his DM now. There is one more ready
to go out, if you have someone awaiting one.
∂04-Nov-80 0258 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #125
Date: 4 NOV 1980 0553-EST
From: DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II)
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #125
To: HUMAN-NETS at MIT-AI
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Tuesday, 4 Nov 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 125
Today's Topics:
Mailing Lists - Cost & Experience, Speech Synthesis - Applications,
Telephone Services - DIAL-IT, Communicating via Network - Polls,
Security - Speech Recognition, Election '80 in Stephens County Okla.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 3 November 1980 10:11-EST
From: "Marvin A. Sirbu, Jr." <SIRBU at MIT-MC>
Subject: The price of Mailing-Lists, electronic style.
Tymnet charges 5 cents for each additional subscriber sent a copy
of a message using their system. As far as I know, Telemail doesn't
charge per recipient, but collects in connect time charges when the
recipient reads the messages.
------------------------------
DP@MIT-ML 10/31/80 01:32:34 Re: Privacy of Computer mail systems
There has been a lot of discussion about the privacy issues
involved with WN. Another completely random one just came up. I
sent a rather disparging comment about someone to another friend,
using vex mail. Unfortunately the subject of the comment walked
by when the message was on the screen, being read. Boy what an
explosion. Chock up another screw by machine.
sigh,
jeff
------------------------------
Date: 3 Nov 1980 at 1234-CST
From: david at UTEXAS-11
Subject: Speech synthesis and the deaf
The recent articles about how speech synthesis will become ubiquitous
in all manner of appliances and products, leads me to wonder what
effects this trend will have on deaf people. Are the deaf going to
be more isolated than they are now, when, for instance, their car
"says" the oil is too low, instead of signalling with an idiot light?
I would hope that manufacturers would continue to offer visual as
well as verbal indicators. But I see no signs that will be the case.
Economics will probably rule. The day may come when verbal indicators
are cheaper to provide than visual ones, and certainly cheaper than
both together.
------------------------------
REM@MIT-MC 11/03/80 06:11:58
I'm a little worried about the 1984-ish possibilities of talking
devices everywhere I go. Monotonic speech tends to induce a
hypnotic trance in many susceptible people. If people are constantly
commanded by these talking devices everywhere they go, they may go
around in a trance obeying the devices without thinking. This method
of controlling the public would seem to be as powerful as subliminal
suggestions in muzak.
------------------------------
Date: 3 November 1980 10:16-EST
From: "Marvin A. Sirbu, Jr." <SIRBU at MIT-MC>
Subject: Telco local loops
Phone systems are designed for roughly a 15% busy hour. That is 15%
of the daily volume will occur during the peak hour. There is NO WAY
the network could handle 200 million calls at once.
------------------------------
Date: 3 Nov 1980 0056-PST (Monday)
From: Lauren at UCLA-SECURITY (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: telephone dialin polling
The main problem with allowing only one call from a particular phone,
then forcing the person to hold for 30 seconds, is that some people
could still evade it. I could register three votes myself, simply
by dialing the number on three separate lines. Imagine what some
businessmen could do sitting on large PBX systems! Of course, we
do cut down fraud from the "average Joe" (whoever HE is) with only
one phone.
I should add that though the DIAL-IT net is designed to block calls
at different points to avoid toll network saturation, it doesn't help
much when it comes to everyone in the country trying to draw dialtone
at the same time! Typical residential central offices can only handle
(I THINK) about 15% of potential callers attempting to originate a
call at once. Just try get a call out right after a major "event"
(the 1971 quake comes to mind) -- GOOD LUCK! The equipment might be
just fine, it's just that everyone in the area tries to use the phone
at once. (I believe that after the '71 quake, they actually had to
"turn off" the 213 area code for several hours... all calls into 213
not placed by operators were blocked to allow emergency calls to get
through the mess of the whole U.S. trying to call L.A. at once...)
--Lauren--
------------------------------
Date: 3 Nov 1980 0307-PST (Monday)
From: Lauren at UCLA-SECURITY (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: Polling and Speech analysis
I can see only one way that dial-in polling can be made to work with
current technology. The problem is that you do not want to count the
number of PHONES who voted for something, you want to count the number
of QUALIFIED PEOPLE who voted (i.e. legally registered and official).
Right now there is no way to be sure of the correspondence. You COULD
assign each individual an "account" number and password and let them
"login" to the polling computer at some point during the day, then
touch-tone in their selections. But I don't think the populace is
ready for that yet ... nor are the politicians...
------------------------------
It seems to me that somewhere in my closet I have a report on the CMU
speech understanding system, which I think is the continuous speech
system discussed in the last digest. The line about "How many lunar
samples..." rings a bell. If my memory serves me correctly, that
system could not operate in a "hostile" environment, nor could it
pick speech out of a running conversation. You had to walk up to
the thing and very carefully speak the query or else it would not
work well at all. It would seem to be a qualitative, and not just
quantitative jump from that to a system that can pick out phrases
in the midst of a typical "sloppy" running conversation. I also
think that the CMU system got much of its impressive results through
highly context "locked" semantics -- at any given time the system had
a subset of words that it would expect to hear based on the previous
query. That is, it did not have to pick out ALL the possible keywords
from every statement, it had some idea what to expect. It's been
awhile since I read that report, so I may be bit off here, but that's
how I remember it.
Someone suggested that "... you don't have to monitor all the millions
of calls, only the thousands of potentially subversive ones", or some
such. What does THAT mean? How do we determine these? Do we simply
bug all the phones going into universities? Computer researchers?
Government agencies?!? What difference is there between this and
simple "tape" bugging? More importantly, one would think that the
primary reason anyone would WANT a computerized flagging system is
to enable you to check as many calls as possible, so you could spot
NEW subversive callers that you do not already know about (and can
deal with through more conventional technology like tape recorders.)
This whole discussion is getting very depressing ... I would like a
"voice typewriter" as much as the next person, but when I think about
some of the ramifications of true speech understanding computers, it
can get to be a bit of a downer. Yet another two-edged blade to put
into the hands of "children". (I know I should not say "children"
but I can't help it, that's the way I view "the masses" much of the
time -- sorry about that folks.)
--Lauren--
------------------------------
Date: 4 November 1980 01:11 est
From: SSteinberg.SoftArts at MIT-Multics (SAS at SAI-Prime)
Subject: speech recognition
The NEC speech continuous speech recognizer costs about $80K in
quantity one and mainly consists of a small mini-computer which
in general layout looks like a mid-size PDP-11 (i.e. single cage)
and comes with a paper tape and a TTY (no RS232) interface. Our
model came with a programmer's module which consisted of two rows
of LED's to show what the words were. The Architecture Machine
also bought the optional parallel interface so we could load and
restore vocabularies without retraining.
I was pretty impressed with the gadget. It can distiguish 100
different phrases as long as you are willing to design the
vocabulary right. If you put in "turn", "left" and "turn left"
it will sometimes give you the two former and sometimes the one
latter. While it is trained for the speaker in question for the
best results there is a fairly high carry over for another
speaker of the same sex.
For obvious reasons it handles long streams of speech better than
short ones. This means that you can get better results in your
application if you have it handle useful phrases rather than just
words. This cuts the vocabulary a bit but the improved performance
is usually worth it.
I imagine a faster CPU could monitor many satellite voice lines for
key phrases except that it would be dificult to figure out what the
phrases should be. With enough experience I suppose the matching
calls could be selected and recorded so that human listeners could
then decide what to do with the raw data.
Obviously this could get us into the (well discussed) problems
inherent in any keyword system but the technology is sufficient
to automatically profile all international calls of a certain
nature.
------------------------------
Date: 03 Nov 1980 1942-PST
From: an ITS BBOARD and Jim McGrath <JPM at SU-AI>
Subject: growing up fast
DUNCAN, Okla. (AP) - When the Stephens County Election Board
pushes for faster, more accurate analysis of Tuesday's voting, a
15-year-old self-taught computer whiz will provide the computer
- and the skills to use it.
Computing precinct totals and candidate percentages will be
Duncan High School sophomore Dieter Muller. He'll pack his
computer system in about 15 boxes and move his operation to the
Election Board office.
In the three years since he got a home computer, Muller has
added components so he can program payrolls and inventories for
a retail television store, a machine shop and a tax accountant.
"Hopefully, the business will grow," said Muller, who works
nine or 10 hours a day at his computer.
Muller said learning about computers is difficult: The area
vocational-technical school won't admit him to computer-related
courses because he's not 16:
"They don't want little kids disturbing the class," he said.
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂04-Nov-80 0916 CG
I've already got a DM; thanks though
∂04-Nov-80 0924 Buchanan@SUMEX-AIM (Response to message)
Date: 4 Nov 1980 0922-PST
From: Buchanan@SUMEX-AIM
Subject: (Response to message)
To: JMC@SU-AI
In response to your message sent 04 Nov 1980 0918-PST
would like to borrow a Datamedia if you have one. I'm still using
this slow TI. Are yyou upstairs now?
bgb
-------
∂04-Nov-80 1123 Feigenbaum@SUMEX-AIM french lessons in AI
Date: 4 Nov 1980 1112-PST
From: Feigenbaum@SUMEX-AIM
Subject: french lessons in AI
To: *<AIHANDBOOK>AI-BBD.TXT;1, *<BULLETINS>SUMEX-BBD.TXT;1,
To: bbd@SCORE
cc: buchanan, jmc@SAIL
FROM ACT TWO OF MOLIERE'S LE BOURGEOIS GENTILHOMME:
Mr. Jourdain: And what are they, these three processes of reasoning?
Philosopher: The first, the second, and the third. The first is the
comprehension of affinities, the second discrimination by means of
categories, the third deduction by means of syllogisms.
Mr. Jourdain: No. These sound like horrible words. Logic doesn't
appeal to me. Let me learn something nicer.
-------
∂04-Nov-80 1122 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
I made your reservations on Friday for 12:15. Is that hour satisfactory?
∂04-Nov-80 1437 AAM Chess endgame
The very successful program at the demonstration this morning was written
by John Hobby (CSD.HOBBY@SCORE) and Joe Weening (CSD.WEENING@SCORE). They
asked me to copy their data to SAIL, so I have it stored on one of the
hand-eye UDPs. If you want to pursue this problem further (as Don told me
you did) you might want to get in touch with these two students.
Allan
∂04-Nov-80 1859 100 : Edward Huang WPS
Hi John,
On the front of the lockers+showers facilties
at my school (Woodside Priory Portola Valley,Ca)
I saw: Lockers and Showers Faclities Donated in memory
of JOhn Mc Carty.What is that all about ? Any relationships
with you or your familly ???? = Edward Huang Age 15
>>>>>> Reply via: Mailbox REM <<<<<<<<<
To Huang via REM: McCarty is a common name. No relation.
∂05-Nov-80 0300 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) account at SU-AI
Date: 5 NOV 1980 0557-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: account at SU-AI
To: JMC at SU-AI
Thanks. Hope to see you this weekend. JEP
∂05-Nov-80 0356 Randy <CSD.STRAUSS at SU-SCORE> cs206
Date: 5 Nov 1980 0354-PST
From: Randy <CSD.STRAUSS at SU-SCORE>
Subject: cs206
To: jmc at SU-AI
Greetings, this last homework set has been an interesting ordeal.
With the exception of proving termination (I am the one who asked
you to do the example on the board), I am nearly finished.
Two things still bother me. The first is not having a chance to
have an assignment corrected AFTER we get a feeling of how to prove
termination and before we are tested on it.
The second is that there seems to be a lack of communication.
I think many of us are having trouble with the course. I couldn't
do any of the problems until I sat down and had some basics
explained by Scott. It would be helpful, I think, if you would
begin class by asking how many of us are getting anywhere on the
homework, how many understand it and what we are having problems with.
Similarly for in class topics. I understand what you say, but it all
seems like a big presentation instead of instruction. You mentioned
at one point that termination was trivial if the function just used
primitive recursive functions. Is that all we have to say in some of
the proofs? Is it ever appropriate?
We talked about rank one day in class, but setting up the rank
correspondence still seems like a mystery. When we sit in class and
listen and take notes, it is hard to know how much we have to
understand, how much we'll be able to figure from our notes and the
text (which was of little help with rank) and how much we should be
certain of in class and should ask questions about. It would help
a lot to know the settings in which we will use what you present.
I like the class; these computer letters tend always to sound so
final and decisive... It's often difficult to correlate our problems
with any aspect of the lectures. I just wanted to let you know that
we are having some problems and, as I wouldn't have believed two days
ago, we are making some progress.
sincerely,
Randy Strauss
-------
Thanks for your comments. I will do a large number of examples
tomorrow. Some changes in the format of the proof chapter
haven't worked out as well as hoped, but since I think that a good
understanding of proof techniques is important, I'll take whatever
time is required.
∂05-Nov-80 0859 REM via SU-TIP
What level play was the mate in 6 (program setting, super-fast mode or the
slowest "best" mode or between)?
The six move mate was at levels 2 and 3 of the Chess Challenger 7. At level
3 it takes about one minute and twenty seconds per move. The level 7 17
move mate (I think it was 17) takes about 3 minutes per move. The levels
aren't consecutive. The games are on the AI bulletin board.
∂05-Nov-80 0941 SOL via MIT-TIP transisition
Could you help Ithiel and msyself identify the
Reagan transistion team in our area wo would be conserend with
crisis communcations, national security, energy, etc.? We had
a meeting with FEma on Monday whci was hopeful for an immediate but brief
start -- the obivous problem being lack of continuity when the
new team comes in.
Ithiel will probably phone you tonight about this.
richard
Yes. I would be glad to help. While I don't know the Hoover
people who are closely connected with Reagan, probably Edward Teller would
help introduce us to the right people. I'll await the call, since I want
to be sure I understand what is needed.
I have an additional concern. I think that computers are used
very inefficiently everywhere, but probably especially in the Government.
Mainly they are overstaffed. Moreover, I think new technology could save
a lot of money for the Government and for everyone who has to deal with
the Government. For example, the Government could probably save money by
offering a $5 to $10 premium for electronically submitted income tax
returns, and the companies that prepare the returns for accountants and
tax companies could easily arrange this for their clients.
∂05-Nov-80 1258 RJT CSD Colloquium
To: JMC at SU-AI
CC: CET at SU-AI
It turns out I was wrong; Carolyn, not Denny, is in charge of scheduling these
talks. She says they are booked up all the rest of this quarter, but one of
the 13th and 20th of January 1981 will be free if you wnat to give your talk.
- Richard Treitel
I would be happy to give a talk in the colloquium on January 13.
∂05-Nov-80 1701 DEK Science yearbook
Phyllis showed me the book you loaned her with the color pictures of
Ron Graham in Jacks Hall. I'd like to show it to Jill, can I borrow it?
I'll bring it in..
∂05-Nov-80 2200 JMC*
I'll bring it in..
∂06-Nov-80 0301 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #127
Date: 6 NOV 1980 0545-EST
From: DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II)
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #127
To: HUMAN-NETS at MIT-AI
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Thursday, 6 Nov 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 127
Today's Topics:
Electronic Mail - GTE, FCC Computer Inquiry II,
Security - Speech Recognition, Speech Synthesis - Applications,
Telephone Services - DIAL-IT, Communicating via Network - Polls
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 6 November 1980 0220 EDT
From: The Moderator
Subject: News Stories on Electronic Mail / FCC decision
Copies of newswire stories concerning GTE and Electronic Mail, and
the recent FCC decision to continue the Second Computer Inquiry
ruling of last April have been established in a file at the sites
listed below. Everyone should obtain the file from the site which
is most convenient for them. If you are unable to do so, please
send mail to HUMAN-NETS-REQUEST@MIT-AI and I will be happy to make
sure that you get a copy.
Please obtain your copies in the near future however, since the
files will be deleted in one week. A copy of the material will
also be added to the archives. Thanks go to Richard Brodie,
Richard Lamson, Doug Philips, Jon Solomon, and Don Woods for
providing space for the materials on their systems, and to Geoff
Goodfellow and Jim McGrath for making the material available to
us.
Site Filename
MIT-AI AI:DUFFEY;HUMNET ELMAIL
CMUA TEMP:ELMAIL.HMN[A210DP0Z]
PARC-MAXC [Maxc]<Brodie>HUMNET-ELMAIL.TXT
Rutgers [Rutgers]Ps:<Solomon>Electronic.Mail
SU-AI ELMAIL.HUM[T,DON]
MIT-Multics
>user←dir←dir>SysMaint>Lamson>human-nets>electronic-mail.text
[Note, you can TYPE or FTP the file from SAIL without an account.]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 80 09:49-EST
From: smarttdd at DNGC
Subject: speech recognition/voice-stress analysis
In regards to the on going discussion of big brother and speech
analysis, has anyone heard of the use of voice-stress analysis
for the same purpose.
Now I am not saying these methods are effective (or ineffective),
but if we are willing to entertain the idea that "they" are spying
on private telecommunications, then it's not hard to imagine an
agency using a technique which is of questionable validity.
If all the phone calls the NSA, CIA, IRS, et al were interested were
screened for only those containing stressful patterns, they would cut
down considerably on general chit-chat.
Of course, the phone calls about a death in the family, or a business
man lying to his customer, or the "checks in the mail" calls would
also be flagged. But the vast majority of calls which are concerned
with business matters, chit-chat etc would be skimmed over.
I do not know much about how stress analysis works, and whether or not
the phone lines are so band-limited as to preclude their use for such
an operation.
And if someone feels they wouldn't be used because they are of
questionable reliability, remember Atlanta has just brought in a
psychic to help solve the murders of the black children in that
town. Desperate people do desperate things.
seeya,
jmichael deigan
boston, mass
------------------------------
Date: 5 Nov 1980 1625-EST
From: ERIC at MIT-EE
Subject: Misinformation
To: newcomer at CMU-10A
Joe:
Nevertheless Joe, we DID get an official visit in 1974,
the intelligence people ARE paranoid, and they have BIG bucks
(unaccountable) to play with. I have no opinion as to whether
or not large numbers of phone calls are screened by machine (I
have insufficient data to form an opinion). However I do think
that the state of the art of voice recognition has advanced to
the point where such a device could in fact be made. I am about
as knowledgable as anyone on this subject. Such a device would
not work faultlessly, but it would work. It could also identify
("voiceprint") certain people using the same LPC system. Trigger
if Joe Blow speaks. I think that many of us just do not like to
think of the possible/probable uses of our work (like sensor nets)
and simply refuse to even consider the possibility of their use.
Using humans to monitor conversations (clearly being done right
now), also has bugs, since humans grow bored listening to mostly
inane chatter and miss important things.
Eric
------------------------------
Date: 5 Nov 1980 0413-PST (Wednesday)
From: Lauren at UCLA-SECURITY (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: "The UCLA Arpanet Connection" / Text-to-Speech
Ah yes. The '75 (or whenever it was) article in the UCLA Daily
Bruin (entitled "ARPA: UCLA's Pentagon Connection") was QUITE
a piece. It had a really neat picture at the top of the banner
headline too: showing computers, superimposed brains, and a
submarine, among other things. Needless to say, it had a few
problems with accuracy. The writer seemed to be very concerned
that Pentagon officials would access the UCLA computers to
change students' grades. Or something. He/she was convinced
that the Arpanet was a vast conspiracy of some sort promoting
death and destruction in some direct fashion. They also managed
to drag in speech recognition and the work of a researcher down
the hall engaged in EEG research, the so-called "brain-computer
interface lab". Some fascinating work has been going on there
involving computer analysis of EEG data. It is actually possible
for a person to guide a "mouse" through a maze on a CRT purely
with thought! Somehow the writer seemed to think it was only a
small step from this to mind-reading machines and brain-control.
The day after the article was published, a couple of students
were seen roaming around the halls obviously wanting to see the
subject of the article. They found the interface lab. One of
them pointed at it and said, "Look! There's the BRAIN CONTROL
laboratory". Sigh. I have seen the article posted on a number
of IMPs around the net -- it is quite a collector's item. How
do you explain to a person like the author of that piece that
the big bolts on the top of the IMP are NOT for lowering it
into submarines?
------------------------------
The TI Text-to-Speech system should be very interesting. I
really do hope they built in reasonable extensions for user
customizing of the vocabulary tables, however. I have worked
rather extensively with the Bell Labs "speak" program (a damn
good text-to-speech translation program) and various model
Votrax synthesizers. I found early on that it was very
necessary to add my own exceptions to the tables for words
that the system would incorrectly pronounce but that were
appearing frequently in my application. I assume the same
sort of problem is going to appear with ANY predetermined
word list. I even had to change some of the pronounciation
rules -- there were a number that I was able to improve on
considerably, at least for what I was doing. At the VERY
least, I hope TI builds in an escape to allow the direct
input of phoneme designations to handle words the chip rules
pronounce incorrectly. Knowing the way these things usually
go though, TI will demonstrate the chip about a year before
they can produce more than five a month, and then they will
insist that they will only sell to users with requirements
for 100K unit lots.
--Lauren--
------------------------------
Date: 05 Nov 1980 0903-PST
From: TAW at SU-AI
Subject: Talking appliances for the Deaf
It seems as though a non-verbal mode is an utter necessity even
for the non-hearing-impaired. Imagine some hapless houseperson trying
to prepare for a dinner party with the stove, microwave, refrigerator,
toaster, etc. all talking at once!!!! At my house, the trash collector
would make a fortune in scrap metal the next morning.
Tom
------------------------------
Date: 5 NOV 1980 1152-EST
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
My father suggested that the ABC/TPC poll might have been rigged 2:1
in favor of Reagan by one of these methods: (1) counters were rigged
to count one vote for Reagan both at connection and disconnection,
but for Carter only at connection; (2) TPC equipment might have been
secretly set up to have twice as many ports for Reagan calls as for
Carter calls; (3) Reagan workers might have dialed into Carter lines
and stayed on the line without hanging up, which prevents the called
party from hanging up in many exchanges. Are any of these technically
feasible if the engineer at TPC who set things up was bribed by ABC or
by the Republican party? It is of course possible that twice as many
people really thought Reagan won the debate as thought Carter won, but
it was so close to 2:1 and the normal polls were so close to 1:1 that
the ABC/TPC poll seems a priori fishy and all cheating-methods must
be dismissed before the poll can really be trusted. Anybody else have
some novel ideas how they might have rigged it if they did? (My
personal theory is that Reagan supporters were more energetic because
they were trying to get into office instead of merely complacently
staying in, but 2:1 is a little hard to explain just on that basis.)
Anybody have ideas how to set up a poll so you can PROVE afterward
that it wasn't rigged instead of just trusting the experts? (With
paper ballots you can recount, but already with voting machines I'm
not sure how you could prove the machines weren't rigged, and these
polls begin to exceed my ability to trust.)
------------------------------
Date: 06 Nov 1980 0039-PST
From: Charles Frankston <CBF at SU-AI>
Subject: TV election coverage
NETWORKS
By Michael Hill
The Baltimore Evening Sun (Field News Service)
It was like going in to watch a nice long movie and finding out
they had put the last reel on first.
Political junkies settling down in front of the television for
their quadrennial fix of that heady mixture of adrenalin and ex-
haustion had to settle for hanging on for the Arizona Senate race.
It wasn't supposed to be like this. It was supposed to be 3 AM
with Walter Cronkite's tie loosened and John Chancellor's hair
mussed and half-empty coffee cups showing up on the set before you
could put this one to bed.
But NBC started putting the blue Reagan color on its big
map a few minutes after 6 p.m. By 7:30, the electoral votes were
adding up, the key states coming in blue - or some confusing shade
of gray for those unfortunate souls watching in black and white.
At 8 o'clock, after coming back from its break for local
stations, Chancellor and Tom Brokaw announced a block of 12
states projected in the Reagan column.
At 8:15, NBC gave Reagan New Hampshire, Vermont, Delaware and
South Carolina and declared him the next president. The polls had
been closed in Maryland for 15 minutes. They would be open for
hours more on the West Coast.
Reagan's electoral sweep was matched by NBC's win in the network
projection sweepstakes. At the moment that NBC gave Reagan the win
with 270 electoral votes, CBS, the slowest of the networks, had him
with 67 votes. Fifteen minutes later, ABC awarded Reagan two states
to boost him to 175.
That's not to say that the commentators on all the networks didn't
recognize the trend towards Reagan early in the evening and run with
it. But their official vote projections did not give him the required
electoral votes until hours after NBC's analysts had come up with that
decision. ABC had Reagan the official winner at 9:53 and CBS not until
10:30. Still plenty of time to get a good night's sleep.
At 8:35, CBS's Dan Rather noted the Reagan trend but refused to
give it to him, saying: "Nobody has enough information to say now how
Texas and Illinois are going to go." Well, NBC thought it had enough
information to give those states to Reagan a half hour before.
ABC had gone into the night promoting its speed at calling the
results and must have been feeling the heat of NBC's early lead.
Frank Reynolds made a rather lame excuse for ABC's lack of a projected
winner at 9:20 when he noted that, although it looked like Reagan had
it, "We're not going to make that kind of projection when people still
have a chance to vote." It seemed a bit late to be developing a social
consciousness.
Despite its speed, NBC did not commit the only big mistake of
the evening, one involving Maryland. ABC did, giving the Free State
to Reagan before 9 o'clock, while NBC and CBS kept the state in the
undecided category. Just before midnight, ABC admitted its snafu and
moved Maryland to Carter's sparse camp.
ABC did have some fine reporting during the evening. While the
other two networks had correspondents at the White House saying what
they had heard Robert Strauss had said, ABC's Barbara Walters was
interviewing Strauss himself.
But most of ABC's coverage was like its news - a lot of techno-
logical flash - quick switches, live shots, prepared and canned
pieces, keep-it-moving stuff. Some of it made no sense. Why was
Brit Hume standing in the Capitol reporting the House results?
CBS seemed the most conventional with a staccato give-'em-the-
facts approach, while NBC was like a living room conversation among
Chancellor, Brokaw and David Brinkley, who is recovering from gall
bladder surgery and showed up only occasionally.
In general, the networks provided a plethora of information to
the television audience with amazing speed, such speed that it cut
into the drama of the affair, and thus probably into the audience.
And so much information, especially analysis from polls conducted
with voters during the day, that it was too much to absorb.
The networks can be faulted for putting so much emphasis on
projecting the winners of each state's electoral votes and painting
their maps with the appropriate color that they virtually ignored
the popular vote. It was noted only a couple of times in the evening
that Reagan was piling up this huge landslide while attracting only
half of the people who voted.
------------------------------
Some comments of my own (Charles Frankston):
In spite of this commentators skepticism about ABC waiting for
the polls to close before calling the election, NBC's call has
generated some heat on the West Coast. Many West Coast politicians
(San Francisco mayor Diane Fienstien for one) complain that with
the presidential race already decided many voters would just decide
not to vote, and there were lots of local issues on the ballot.
At the time this commentary was written I don't think it was definite
which way Massachusetts had gone. I'm fairly sure ABC called it for
Carter (wrong). The question is did NBC also make that mistake or does
ABC have a monopoly on wrong calls? I also remember ABC calling back
at least two senate race calls (from decided to too close to call).
How about an account from the human-nets audience of all the network
errors?
------------------------------
Date: 6 November 1980 03:38-EST
From: William B. Daul <DAUL at MIT-MC>
Subject: VOTE PROJECTIONS
This fits in the Natural Disaster mailing better than HUMAN-NETS
but.... I was very disappointed that the projected winner of
Tuesday's election was made even before the polls closed here on
the West Coast. I have a suggestion for overcoming this handicap
we have west of the Mississippi. The absentee ballots are counted
before election day, so...what if all of us applied for absentee
ballots before election day? Perhaps we could affect the voting
in the East (assuming there might be an effect).
--Bill
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂06-Nov-80 0857 CSD.BSCOTT National Geographic Article
Date: 5 Nov 1980 1646-PST
From: CSD.BSCOTT
Subject: National Geographic Article
To: TOB at SU-AI, CSD.Buchanan, CSD.Genesereth, CSD.Lenat, ZM at SU-AI,
MCC at SU-AI, TW at SU-AI
cc: CSD.Feigenbaum, CSD.BScott
Remailed-date: 6 Nov 1980 0853-PST
Remailed-from: CSD.BSCOTT at SU-SCORE
Remailed-to: JMC at SU-AI
_
I had a call today from a Moira Johnston who is on assignment from National
Geographic to gather information for an article on the Silicon Valley. She
has talked with David Packard who she said suggested she talk with faculty
and research associates here. She is specifically interested in artificial
intelligence research.
She would like to talk with you "collectively," she said, and suggested
2:30 p.m. on Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday of next week. She anticipates
that the interview would take about two hours.
Are you interested? I would like your comments as to how I should respond to
her. She will call me back on Friday. If you want to talk with her directly
she can be reached at 922-1578 in S, usually after 3:30.
Betty
-------
∂06-Nov-80 1021 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Jim Koerber asks that you call him. 56 866 0550. Says he used to talk to
you when he worked at IBM. Said he is now in disk drive area.
∂07-Nov-80 0748 REG Next meeting of the Computer Facilities Planning Committee
To: "@CFPLAN.DIS[CSD,REG]" at SU-AI
Our next meeting will be Wednesday, November 12, 3 PM in room 220.
We will continue the discussion of the varieties of systems and
services to provide, and discuss the results of the survey.
Ralph
∂07-Nov-80 0955 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Bill Sanders of the Medical Center wants information on Dialnet. Who
here can help him. If you are the person, the number is 7-6372
The Dialnet expert is Mark Crispin - MRC to the computer.
∂07-Nov-80 1004 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Dr. Linvill's secretary called to ask if you could see three Frenchmen
from Thomppson-Brandt on the morning of November 14. I can call her
back if you wish or the number is 7-2931.
∂07-Nov-80 1436 Nilsson at SRI-KL Book
Date: 7 Nov 1980 1436-PST
From: Nilsson at SRI-KL
Subject: Book
To: JMC at SU-AI
cc: Nilsson
John, I've been able to find out that the approximate cost of going
from your existing manuscript files to camera ready pages will be
$2000 or so using a computer typesetter across the Bay. In deciding
whether to use that service or TEX/ALPHATYPE, remember that it's pretty
easy to use up the equivalent of $2000 of effort in getting your files
into TEX format and running them on a newish system. My preference
is not to use TEX. If you really want to, then my preference would be
to modify our contract so that you would be responsible for providing
camera ready pages and your royalty rate would go up to reflect the
$2000 or so that I save.
Concerning keeping your book in print. Would it suffice for me to
give you my personal pledge that I would do everything that I reasonably
can to keep your book in print for 10 years. (I would be willing to
write you a letter to that effect.) If you want such an item in the
contract committing Tioga to keeping the book in print, I would want
to consult my lawyer about possible unforseen legal complications to
the company that such a commitment might engender. He would perhaps
add some additional "escape provisions" to such a commitment.
I've now transferred all of your files to SRI. Could you have
your secy Xerox a copy of your "ascribing mental qualities" paper
as it appeared in Ringle's volume and send it to me? Thanks.
I'm anxious to get started as soon as we get everything agreed on. --Nils
-------
∂07-Nov-80 1634 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
The NSF report in question was NSF APR74-01390 - Tom Binford. Betty
has contacted his secretary who will follow through on this with Tom
∂09-Nov-80 0746 DUFFEY at MIT-ML (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #130
Date: 9 NOV 1980 1039-EST
From: DUFFEY at MIT-ML (Roger D. Duffey, II)
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #130
To: HUMAN-NETS at MIT-AI
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Sunday, 9 Nov 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 130
Today's Topics:
Speech - Digitization, Databases and Publishing - Available Databases,
Computers and People - Unauthorized Machine Use,
Communicating via Network - Polling
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 9 Nov 1980 0144-PST (Sunday)
From: Lauren at UCLA-SECURITY (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: request for info: speech digitizing and databases
Recent discussions in this forum have resparked old interests of
mine in a couple of topics, and I'd appreciate the assistance of
the HUMAN-NETS community to track down some of the data I need.
There are two primary questions:
1) What COMMERICAL equipment currently exists to perform speech
digitization into LOW SPEED digital data? I am familiar with
the many CODECS, Delta Modulators, and similar technologies.
What I am really trying to find out about is equipment that
can be bought off-the-shelf to provide extremely low bit
rates. For example, somewhere I remember reading about a
company that was selling a device that did speech formant
analysis and managed to send an incredibly low bit rate. At
the other end, the speech was reconstituted (just add water)
using a formant synthesis device (i.e., a vocoder). While the
recreated speech apparently was clearly artificial sounding,
it supposedly was highly intelligible. Inflections and user-
specific speech characteristics were seemingly transmitted
with considerable accuracy. I think that this device may have
been marketed primarily as a commerical speech scrambler for
businesses, but I could be wrong. Can anyone out there point
me at some references for this or similar technolgies?
2) I would like to establish a list of commercially available
online informational database systems. This list should
include the sometimes hard-to-find information about where
the organization that provides the service is located. What
sort of databases are currently around? I have heard about
NTIS (National Technical Information Service), but know
little about it. What sort of information can they provide?
Where are they? What other sorts of databases abound? Are
there systems that can provide geological data on demand for
given locations? Population statistics? Forestry data? Land
use data? Any and all available systems would be included in
this list. My goal is to discover exactly what the state of
the art in such services is RIGHT NOW, even if some of them
are very highly priced. Only once it is established what NOW
exists can we start to establish what is going to be needed
down the line a ways...
Any and all information on the two topics above would be greatly
appreciated. Responses should probably be sent to me and not
to this list (it has enough traffic as it is!) If there is a
reasonable number of responses, I will summarize the information
for HUMAN-NETS at a later date.
Thanks much.
--Lauren--
------------------------------
Date: 9 November 1980 0103-EST (Sunday)
From: Ellis.Cohen at CMU-10A
Subject: Encyclopedia on the Source
A salesperson for the Source told me last week that they expect
to have an encyclopedia on line in about 6 months. The source was
recently taken over by Reader's Digest (!), which is providing money
necessary to purchase a machine readable form of the encyclopedia
and to prepare an index (!!). The particular enclopedia has not
yet been decided, but I understand that the World Book is likely.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Nov 1980 1250-PST
From: ROODE at SRI-KL (David Roode)
Subject: the Sandia labs computer "misuse"
What kind of computer costs $200 million? The accuracy of the report
is put in doubt by that figure. I recently saw a TRS-80 pointed to on
a TV show, and a remark as made that it cost $20,000, whereas $849 or
$499 was a more likely guess. That would be an exaggeration by a
factor of 40, which would yield a value of $5 million when applied to
the Sandia computer story.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Nov 1980 1752-EST
From: Steven J. Zeve <ZEVE at RUTGERS>
Subject: Thoughts on REM's thoughts on voter projections
One problem with a network that allowed everybody to vote on
everything is: Who would ever have time to give consideration
to all the things to be voted on.
I suspect that allowing everybody to constantly express their
opinions on everything would result in one of two things 1) total
chaos with no one being able to deal with all the constantly changing
data, or 2) absolutely no change from the present because everybody
"cancelled" out.
I believe that we have a proxy system at the moment. That is what
the word republic in the term democratic-republic means. Of course
our proxy is only allowed to cast one vote, but he/she does it in
our name. We even have veto, after a fashion, we campaign against
the representative and have him replaced, or we bury him in letters
voicing our objection to what he has done. As a matter of fact the
system works pretty well, and would probably work better if everybody
would participate in it, instead of complaining about it (especially
people like me who never participate).
As to the reference to polls, bleah! I cannot believe that those
tiny samples are really statistically balanced. I think that to be
statistically balanced when talking about human beings you need
a heck of a big sample, like maybe the entire group that you're
trying to represent with your sample. Human beings just ain't
all that darned identical. Although I suspect that some of the
pollsters really believe, I think that a lot of them don't care
if the sample is "statistically balanced", after all it's just a
way of making a living.
steve z
------------------------------
Date: 8 Nov 1980 1954-EST
From: GREG.HARRIS at CMU-10A
Subject: voting, decoupling the issues, candidate qualifications
Here's an idea for how to organize a representative electoral
process that might be more satisfactory. It is intended to cope
with influence of polls, strategic voting, and partisan campaigns
distorting the deliberative process. The idea is to have an all-
party primary in which any candidate may run for the right to
represent the various segments of opinion in a run-off general-
election. The ballot has questions down the side and candiates
across the top. A voter chooses an answer to represent his own
view, and then checks off those candidates who he feels share
his view and are qualified to represent it. Thus the questions
don't have to be precise proposals, but the candidates could
spell out as much as they need to gain voter confidence.
First there should be a caucus process to determine what questions
are current. Then the candidates formally enter the race by taking
positions on the voters' questions. Since voters may vote for
several, the candidates are not running against eachother until
the run-off. Then the primary is held, and voters register their
opinion on the issues and on the competence of the candidates to
represent their position.
The object of scoring the votes is to get a leading representative
of each significantly different group. The front-runner, of course,
is the candiate with the most votes. To get a runner-up that is
significantly different, take out a fraction (say, half) of the
front-runner's votes (e.g., if he got 40% of the "pro-life" vote,
take 20% of the "pro-life" vote total out before counting again.)
Keep taking out runners-up until a fraction (say, half) of the
total votes on questions are left. Then, I suppose, a simple
popular vote determines the winner. While we're at it, we could
require all-around debates. What would be a fair vote depletion
rate and vote depletion cut-off to ensure all major factions (or
coincidences of factions) field a candidate? Is scaling down vote
totals that have had their say an unreasonalble way to count votes?
An open topic for this group is: how may the questions be compiled
fairly from local debates, petitions, or message traffic? Could an
electronic network system be used in place of crowded meetings to
give people a better oportunity to deliberate over what matters to
them? Perhaps a running opinion poll could be kept in the network
from which to choose a subset of likely questions. What are other
people's thoughts on mechanisms for the masses caucusing by
interpersonal network?
It is usually easy to agree to disagree, but under this mechanism,
the conferees are to agree that it matters about equally whether
the members of their community disagree on a set of questions. Can
politics be fairly organized and conducted this way? This proposal
has the unique feature that all opponents would share the same series
of platform conventions, whose purpose is simply to focus political
attention.
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂09-Nov-80 2004 TOB
To: BS at SU-AI, JMC at SU-AI, DPB at SU-AI,
csd.ullman at SU-SCORE, TOB at SU-AI
I think that we are being overcharged heavily on a grant which is in
bad trouble financially. We have been charged $13,461 through 3/4 of
a year. We are almost broke now and have six months to run. I was
told that there would be refunds when I pointed out overcharges before,
but there have been new, heavy charges.
The situation is serious. There are several changes that I would like:
0. I would like refunds on our NSF contract.
1. I propose that cost center charges be paid for by direct orders signed by
those responsible for research contracts, etc. They are now charged against
contracts without being approved by the investigators. I want to sign
for charges against us.
2. I would like to have charges stabilized so that we can plan and
budget for them. It is difficult to plan for retroactive charges.
I would like to have some voice in setting charge structures.
3. I propose changing the arbitrary charging for facilities which we
don't use, i.e. ALTO and SCORE. I have not heard a convincing
justification for it.
SCORE and SAIL were research facilities. The cost center seems to be
moving from that position. I oppose making them open machines. There
is an infinite sink of potential computing use outside.
Research groups have allocated substantial money to provide adequate
facilities. Until academic computing provides both funds and facilities,
I strongly urge that we consider current realities that there aren't
enough facilities, and that we restrict access. I think that it is
better to seek separate facilities for large-scale academic computing.
∂10-Nov-80 0148 MRC WAITS issues
I am sorry if I offended you the other day by bad-mouthing
WAITS, but you have to see things from my point of view. I am in
the position of having to do Ethernet on WAITS because Frost doesn't
know anything about networks, seeing the bloody thing crash several
times daily, trying to cope with lousy system performance, and
seeing WAITS further trivialized with new "features" every day.
What is worse, I am expected to attend dreary facilities meetings
where WAITS and WAITS problems are the topic of conversation 99.9%
of the time. Maybe it's my fault for keeping SCORE reliable enough
so that there aren't any major controversies on SCORE.
Exciting things are happening in the TOPS-20 world, including
things which WAITS wouldn't dream of having. A display service is
just one issue we are interested in. In recent months, we have
extended the command decoder to be programmable, so that users can
implement their own commands and command procedures with the same
sophistication available in "built-in" commands. We have received
new insights into display service; MIT has implemented an ITS-style
display service in their TOPS-20, which while repulsive in terms of
user interface proves it is practical. Multiple process EXECs are
by now common around the TOPS-20 community, and more importantly are
well understood. EMACS has become enough of a standard editor
around TOPS-20 systems that DEC is under considerable pressure to
implement changes to assist EMACS, and to avoid things which will
unfavorably impact EMACS.
All this is happening not just at Stanford; nor is it confined
to universities. The "real world" is involved in this as well; and
this is what really makes it exciting. Not only we will have these
facilities, but everybody else will. I think it is much more
important to have high-functionality software which will run
everywhere than to have programs like E which are completely useless
outside of SAIL, CCRMA, and IRCAM!
I do believe that we cannot afford to be again confined to
one-of-a-kind systems like WAITS. I also feel that further
trivializing WAITS is doing nothing towards furthering the
technology of high functionality systems; neither is it doing
anything towards improving the availability of the physical hardware
to its user community. If anything, we should be adapting the WAITS
software worth preserving (E, NS, DIRED come immediately to mind) to
TOPS-20 rather than wasting further time on the WAITS operating
system. There are four TOPS-20 systems on campus and it seems
foolish to not be able to share software with them.
-- Mark --
I was not offended by your criticism of WAITS, and I have no intention
of trying to perpetuate WAITS beyond the present hardware. I was offended
by your refusing to take your boots off the chair.
∂10-Nov-80 0225 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #131
Date: 10 NOV 1980 0514-EST
From: DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II)
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #131
To: HUMAN-NETS at MIT-AI
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Monday, 10 Nov 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 131
Today's Topics:
Xerox X-10 Comm Processor Query,
Computers and People - Unauthorized Machine Use,
Communicating via Network - Polls
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 9 Nov 1980 (Sunday) 1148-EDT
From: DREIFU at WHARTON (Henry Dreifus)
Subject: Request for information
I would like to know if anyone has any information on the Xerox X-10
communications processor. Specifications and usage criterion would be
especially useful. Thanks much.
Hank
------------------------------
DLW@MIT-AI 11/09/80 13:19:19
Re: Reply to Roode's question about the $200 million Sandia computer
A computer is not just a processor. If you had ever seen Lawrence
Livermore Lab's rows and rows of disks and magtapes and mass storage
devices and odds and ends, along with their pile of monster (CDC
and Cray) processors, $200 million would hardly seem outrageous.
The figure was probably the cost of the whole facility; naturally
the reporters used the highest availible figure.
------------------------------
Date: 9 Nov 1980 1524-PST
From: Lee W. Cooprider <COOPRIDER at USC-ISIB>
Subject: Immediate polls via network
The idea of a town-meeting network, alluded to again a couple days
ago in HN, further perpetuates one of the problems of installing high
technology in political areas. The recent discussions re: the phone
poll and election predictions show it in one context; reporting. But
there are many other problematical areas as well.
1) The presidential "debate": This exercise, made possible by
television, was also constrained by television. Because of
the linearity of the debate (sequential even where parallelism
was possible) and the assumed attention span of the audience,
issues were relegated a small number of minutes each. Since
the candidates were interested in making other points, half
of the time alloted to an answer was actually spent on intro-
ductory BS. One actually gets the impression that issues can
be addressed in a five-minute exchange. And since the debates
probably had more effect than the continuing newpaper coverage
(which suffered many of the same faults), these thumbnail
approaches to issues have not only been observed but acted
upon.
2) Polls: Even if we assume that polls are accurate, the ease
of taking them has placed undue emphasis on what people think
and feel on a given day. The notion of historical perspective,
always a hard one to promote, is beaten into oblivion by the
chatter of today's opinion (possibly contrasted with yesterday's
opinion and used to predict tomorrow's opinion).
Political issues need months and years to be understood and for
programs to be developed. Popular opinions, formed largely in
ignorance, are easily changed by emotional events (the Iran hos-
tage issue being the largest and most recent of issues of little
importance being center stage in the popular consciousness).
The involvment of HN-style systems in political events will be
another step in the direction that TV and before that daily
newspapers have taken us. Rather than serve as a conduit for
improved information, they will make the historical window
reducible to an hour rather than a day.
I think it is an important challenge for the HN architects to
construct a system which encourages people to take long-range
views (both for historical analysis and planning) rather than
focussing them even more tightly on the immediate time periods.
In my experience, only reading has done this for me. Public
affairs TV has been too slick; I recognize that the format of
the show is more persuasive than the content, and, as someone
whose name I have forgotten said, it is VERY difficult for a TV
image to connote historical sense (which is why "file footage"
is sometimes superimposed over a clip and why black-and-white
or brown-and-white looks old, even if taken yesterday).
------------------------------
Date: 9 Nov 1980 (Sunday) 2225-EST
From: RUBENSTEIN at HARV-10
Subject: Re: Instant polls and the political campaign
One of the immediate outcomes of an electronic polling/voting scheme
such as REM and ZEVE are discussing is, of course, a dramatic increase
in the resolution and accuracy of the polls. What would this mean to
the political campaign process as we know it, assuming that (as usual)
technology manages to outstrip sociology?
Assume the following: that every household has a little multi-position
switch with little readouts next to each position saying what placing
the switch in that position means. Assume further a separate multi-
position switch for each office or issue at question. Each registered
voter at that address would have his own set of switches (naturally,
these "switches" would really be menus on the home computer complex
and one would vote by litepen).
Now, the first question, based on that currently-feasible bit of
technology: What would happen to the current "popularity poll" if
everyone could express his/her current opinion by pointing a pen
at their tube? Why, you would have real honest-to-god measurement
of the popularity of your candidate! I could just see it -- the
most important member of the campaign staff would be the men in
the smoke-filled-rooms, peering constantly at the TV set and the
computer terminal, trying to guess whether it was really that
last comment on gun control or whatever that made the candidates
popularity nosedive. Anyone who has worked with realtime data
collection/reduction systems knows that trying to estimate rates
of change from discrete data samples is far less accurate than the
data itself. Getting at the second derivative is worse. Right now,
with once a week polls, the above sort of instant analysis during
the evening news would be impossible. What would the effect be on
society if Walter could ask, "How do you feel about this issue?"
and have 50,000,000 people point at the menu on the side of their
screen? Perhaps this kind of straw poll would be really useful to
local politicians in getting an immediate feel for their electorate.
Maybe not.
There are many other interesting questions this raises. Once you
set the switch does your vote remain among those counted in the
poll? Do votes go "stale" after a time? Presumably there would
be an "undecided" setting that your vote would revert to after a
time...
An interesting subject...
Stew R.
------------------------------
Date: 09 Nov 1980 1749-PST
From: David Lowe <DLO at SU-AI>
Subject: Media dangers and networking
The various comments that people have been making about the
influence of the polls on voters and the poor quality of infor-
mation in the media seem to me to be missing the real problem.
The real issue as I see it is that the decision making process
in this country is part of a highly unstable system, because of
the mutual interaction between the opinions of the population
and the viewpoints expressed in the media. It is often not truth
or balance which determines the content of the media so much as
the desire to reinforce the current viewpoints of the readership
(people like to buy newspapers which agree with their current
opinions). This in turn leads to changes in the opinions of the
readership, and so on in a mutually reinforcing cycle that leads
to ever more extreme positions and distortions. This situation
also gives a great deal of power to those who are in a position
to "seed" the media with the initially mild distortions which
can then start a cycle of mutual reinforcement.
The solution to this problem is obviously not some sort of censorship
which tries to weed out distortions (the censors would be those in
power rather than unbiased researchers). However, the situation can
be improved by having a general understanding of the problem and by
not assuming that a "free" media will be likely to present the truth
if it is just left alone. If people realize the systematic nature of
the distortions which can arise, then criticism of various media
sources would carry much more weight.
Other Human-Nets contributors have noted the band-wagon effect in
the reporting about nuclear power and presidential campaigns, but
the most extreme effects are in the reporting of events in other
countries, where the readership in this country has virtually no
first-hand evidence to correct the ever more extreme reporting of
foreign events. As a specific example (which I hope won't seem too
political) one could cite the impartial and non-political research
done by Amnesty International on political repression in other
countries, where the research on unfriendly countries is widely
reported and enhanced while that on "friendly" countries is almost
totally ignored. One small example of the latter is the case of
Guatemala, where newspaper reports almost invariably refer to
"alleged human rights violations" when they are mentioned at all,
whereas Amnesty has done all it can to publicize extensive docu-
mentation of over 20,000 people tortured to death under government
sponsorship and other extreme acts of official terrorism against a
previously almost non-existent and non-violent opposition. Compare
this to the publicity and protest given to the imprisonment of a
few Soviet political prisoners, where Americans have much less
opportunity to take effective action. This use of "alleged" in the
newspaper reports and the omission of very relevant information is
a lie in as real a sense as any other sort of lie. It is also very
much against the interests of the American people, particularly
their often genuine interests in democracy and morality, but the
reinforcement cycle described above provides strong support for
this type of reporting (as do other forces).
The discussion in Human-Nets regarding electronic mailing lists
seems to me to be very naive on this issue. The fact that these
lists will go around small special-interest groups who have signed
up for them provides potentially very dangerous conditions for the
creation of extreme mutually-reinforcing opinions. Many people seem
to think that as long as free access is provided and no censorship
is allowed the truth will prevail. This is just not the only possible
result of a "free" media. If computer security is provided, then some
deviant group could form their own extreme philosophy without anyone
else knowing, until they break forth onto an unsuspecting world (a
computerized Jonestown or Manson cult). Current problems with the
media could be reinforced many fold by the introduction of "special
interest" mailing lists, which could provide rapid communication and
reinforcement of ideas without any control on the accuracy of the
contents. I propose that consideration be given to the banning of
"secret" mailing lists.
------------------------------
Date: 9 NOV 1980 1644-PST
From: ESTEFFERUD at USC-ECL
Subject: The stuff of Politics and voting
It seems to me that much of what is being said about politics and
voting here misses the basic point that the stuff of politics is
the compromise of differing and potentially incompatible belief
systems by means of negotiation processes.
If I am correct in my assumptions, then it is not in the vote
counting process, but in the give and take of argument during
the campaign that the compromising processes occur. Voting is
just the forcing function at the end of the process.
It is in the reduction to a single vote for each person that
the compromise process occurs. Not the counting of votes after
decisions are made.
The taking of polls that indicate potential voter preferences
provides one kind of useful information. Candidate statements
provide other information. The voters in our situation honestly
decide how they feel and reduce their feelings to a single vote
each. Does anyone out there really believe that the voters were
bamboozelled by the noise that was mixed with the signals of the
campaign? Be honest now --- it is hard to accept losing, but at
least half of us like the results.
I assume in this that those who did not vote were truly indifferent
to the outome, on the average, and that they used "not-voting" to
precisely state their preferences. But this is another subject.
I believe that it is the need to accept the compromising of your
own values that most of you are complaining about. I agree that
compromising one's own beliefs is painful. How could it be
otherwise?
However, the alternative of letting someone else compromise them
for us is totally unacceptable! Just think about it!
Enjoy - Stef
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂10-Nov-80 0814 CSD.BSCOTT at SU-SCORE
Date: 10 Nov 1980 0811-PST
From: CSD.BSCOTT at SU-SCORE
To: TOB at SU-AI, BS at SU-AI, JMC at SU-AI, DPB at SU-AI, csd.ullman at SU-SCORE
In-Reply-To: Your message of 9-Nov-80 2004-PST
Tom, I will check out the NSF grant, and see if any adjustments can be made.
With regard to cost center charges, some changes are being made. Suggest
that comments should come from Ralph and Denny.
Betty
-------
∂10-Nov-80 1034 TOB
John
I did not say overcharged idly, but after examination of charges months ago.
That was for the revised charges of approximately $275 for 1% (under the
aliquot system) rather than the earlier $172 per 1%. NSF is in terrible
trouble and Denny promised relief. We are far underbudgeted for the next
proposal, based on then available figures.
Tom
∂09-Nov-80 2052 JMC charges
To: TOB at SU-AI, REG at SU-AI, BS at SU-AI,
csd.ullman at SU-SCORE
I'm not convinced you are being overcharged - at least not by very much.
Given the department's computer facilities budget of $800K per year (part
paid by other users of SCORE) and research budget of $6.5 million, it would
seem that about ten percent should go for computing - or a bit more.
This was about what it was when SAIL was operating solely supported by
ARPA, but the non-ARPA grants were probably undercharged. It might be
that the department facilities are over-opulent. In particular, it might
be that the Altos are a gift horse that must be looked in the mouth.
You should include REG in your distribution of such messages. I'll forward
it.
∂10-Nov-80 1115 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Louise Peterson, Dr. Linville's secretary called to ask if you would be able
to meet with the Frenchmen on the morning of November l4. If you have
questions about it, her number is 7-2931. If you do not have time to meet
with them, Dr. Linvill asks if you have another person here to suggest who
could be helpful to them.
∂10-Nov-80 1153 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Ithiel Pool called and will call back between 2 and 5 today.
∂10-Nov-80 1318 FWH PV+A Seminar
To: "@SEM.DIS[SEM,VER]" at SU-AI
PROGRAM VERIFICATION AND ANALYSIS SEMINAR
PLACE: ERL 237
TIME: 2:30 p.m., Tuesday, November 11
SPEAKER: Larry Robinson, Ford Aerospace and Communications Corp.
TITLE: HDM: Languages, Verification and Future Directions
∂11-Nov-80 0206 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #132
Date: 11 NOV 1980 0456-EST
From: DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II)
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #132
To: HUMAN-NETS at MIT-AI
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Tuesday, 11 Nov 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 132
Today's Topics:
Xerox XTEN Comm Processor,
Databases and Publishing - McGraw-Hill & Ziff-Davis,
Home Info Services - Source, Communicating via Networks - Polls,
Voyager Encounter with Saturn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
KRAUSS@MIT-MC 11/10/80 08:49:00 Re: XTEN
In response to Hank Dreifus' request re: XTEN
XTEN (not X-10) is a plan for common carrier local data distribution
service using 10 GHz digital microwave rather than telco wirelines.
For the latest unconfirmed rumors about XTEN see November Datamation
at page 14.
---Jeff---
------------------------------
Date: 10 NOV 1980 2213-EST
From: DEKKER at CCA (Edward Dekker)
Subject: Databases and Publishing
The movement of publishers into the database market has already
started, over the last year McGraw-Hill bought Data Resources and
Ziff Davis bought Wharton Econometric Forcasting Associates.
Ed.
------------------------------
Date: 10 Nov 1980 0828-PST
From: GAGE at USC-ISIE
Subject: Problems with the SOURCE
Article from Nov 7 Washington Post (page E1):
PRINTING FIRM ASKS LIEN ON THE SOURCE
A printing company that claims Digital Broadcasting Corp. owes it
$47,226 has asked a Fairfax County court to slap a lien on a home
computer network called The Source, further complicating an already
complicated series of claims to the asset.
The Source is a home computer facility that provides .... The concept
for the Source was developed by Digital Broadcasting, owned by a
subsidiary called Telecomputing Corporation of America, and ultimately
transferred to yet another company called Source Telecomputing
Corporation.
Last month the Readers Digest Association bought a majority interest
in Source Telecomputing, believing it was buying control of a company
that owned The Source. But an interest in The Source is being claimed
by a variety of other parties, including the company that filed the
lien.
The company, Trager Hadley Taft Inc., claims ... that the Source was
transferred wrongly to Source Telecomputing in an attempt by Jack
Taub, by Digital and by Telecomputing Corporation of America to evade
Digital's creditors.
.........
Taub and former partner William Von Meister are countersuing each
other in federal court in Virginia, with Von Meister claiming that the
court should rule on whether Digital or Source Telecomputing owns The
Source. A batch of minority stockholders in Digital has made a
similar claim that The Source belongs to DBC in still another suit.
Digital defaulted on a Department of Commerce loan in 1979, and the
government also has claimed a security interest in The Source.
An attorney for the readers Digest Association ... said ... "Readers
Digest can't do much more than wait for all the smoke to clear from
all the various claims" ... He added that Readers Digest has not been
persuaded that The Source belongs anywhere other than in Source
Telecomputing.
------------------------------
Date: 10 Nov 1980 0259-PST (Monday)
From: Lauren at UCLA-SECURITY (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: banning "secret" mailing lists
I can hardly think of a more oppressive concept. While we're at it,
we might as well ban people from getting together physically in small
groups -- who knows what sort of nasty ideas they might be discussing
(and reinforcing?)
Does the concept of banning lists mean that ANYONE should be allowed
to join ANY list? That list maintainers are forced to support massive
lists when only small ones were envisioned? Whatever happened to the
concept of personal freedom and privacy of communications?
Attempts to avoid "fringe" groups from cropping up through control of
information flow (in this case we are talking about forced disclosure,
essentially) has been tried before by various totalitarian or would-be
totalitarian entities. I do not recommend it.
--Lauren--
------------------------------
Date: 10 November 1980 1305-EST (Monday)
From: Joe.Newcomer at CMU-10A
Subject: Polls, projects, vote counting
Pennsylvania recently passed legislation permitting electronic voting
machines. The intent of this, I suspect, is to permit the machines
to transmit their tallies to some central system, which then forwards
them to some other regional machine, etc. until, minutes after the
polls close, the votes are counted.
A fine idea. Unfortunately, the politicians have again demonstrated
their total incompetence in technical areas. For example, the spe-
cifications say "The machine shall be constructed in a workmanlike
manner" but say nothing about what this really means. I suppose
a neatly chromed machine would be fine. Specifications include
requirements that it be subjected to a sample voting population and
that it report the totals accurately. What about data reliability,
encoding, EMI resistance? Nothing. In fact, an Apple computer would
seem to nominally fit the requirements! Of course, any undergraduate
hacker can come up with six dozen ways to get him/herself elected;
I assert that anyone with $5000 can hire someone to rig an election.
And even simple problems were not considered: for example, when the
water cooler connected to the same line as my terminal turns on,
about 4 times out of 10, the terminal enters a bogus state. There
was nothing about requirements of reliability for secondary or
primary memory ("And Reagan wins re-election by a parity error..."),
either electronic or physical. And, of course, the lawyers provide
employment for their own; the evaluation board must consist of three
members: A patent attorney, and two people "familiar with data
processing and tabulating equipement". I used to program a 407 ---
is that qualification enough? To top it off, they offer $150 for
a 7.5 hour evaluation of the equipment. For that price, they can
bring it to my office and I'll give them 30 minutes.
Here is a great chance for computers to screw up and REALLY be in
the public eye. The requirements and evaluation process are a very
sick joke, and as both a computer scientist and a voter, I'm scared.
Of course computers CAN do the job, but anything which meets their
requirements and passes their "evaluation" is going to be hopelessly
inadequate.
Of course, they probably WILL be ready by 1984...
joe
------------------------------
Date: 10 Nov 1980 1110-PST
From: Zaumen at SRI-KL
Subject: Polls Miss The Point
The main fault with using polls to make decisions can be illustrated
as follows:
POLL
question 1: Do you want lower taxes? <answer:yes>
question 2: Do you want more services? <answer:yes>
question 3: Do you want special interests
to be regulated? <answer:yes>
question 4: Do you want to be regulated? <answer: #### NO!>
This, I think, is the kind of results most polls give -- they imply
that the American public wants to have its cake and eat it too.
Actually, the results show that polls, as currently run, do not ask
the right question. The ACTUAL answers to the questions listed above
are:
1: yes, for what we are getting, taxes are too high.
2: yes, for what I am paying, services are too low.
3: yes, for some cases.
4: #### NO, for a lot of cases.
For electronic voting to work, we need some mechanism which allows us
to measure the relative weights of our beliefs (how strongly one feels
about a certain issue) and how much I am willing to spend (out of my
income via taxes) to pay for a particular program. There has to be a
mechanism which discriminates between issues on which the populace is
highly polarized, issues for which the populace thinks either of (say)
two solutions will work, but for which one or the other will work a
bit better, and issues for which one might want A xor (B but not C),
etc.
Hope I haven't rambled too much!
------------------------------
Date: 10 November 1980 11:50 est
From: Lamson at MIT-Multics (Richard Lamson)
Subject: Voting on issues (response to Greg Harris)
In reply to Greg Harris:
A major problem with your proposal is the race in which three
candidates are running, two of whom are nearly identical in
their politics. This sort of thing happened in the recent
Senate race in New York, where Sen. Javits drew enough voters
away from Rep. Holtzman to elect Mr. D'Amato to the Senate.
------------------------------
REM@MIT-MC 11/09/80 19:49:57 Re: Optimal representative system
The following is a very tentative suggestion: For some important
issues it is vital that the majority get their way after the
minority has had a chance to present its rebuttal. But for the
majority of issues that most people don't have time to study, it
is more important that the representative (proxy) be intelligent
and reasonable and honest than that he/she agree with the majority
on the few popular issues. Thus maybe for the most popular issues
the direct vote of the people should override the representative's
choice, and thus the representative's choice on those few issues
should be IGNORED when deciding who that representative will be,
but rather the general character of the candidate and his/her
general political beliefs/opinions on the majority of quiet
issues should dominate?
California with its direct initiative process is a crude attempt to
do this sort of thing, but I think a HUMAN-NET properly set up could
do a lot better at handling those few popular questions/issues.
------------------------------
Date: 9 November 1980 1857-EST
From: William Sholar at CMU-10A
Subject: REM's REMarks on voting . . .
Some 10 years ago one James Brown of unknown fame wrote of a utopian
society, using a science fiction scheme to make it realistic. The
scheme only involved increased economic development in the Third
World plus (get this . . .) access to a world-wide computer net by
about everyone from home terminals. Brown suggested this might be
remotely feasible around 2060 or so . . .
REM's comments about voter participation were similar to the mechanism
by which this utopian society operated its (world) government:
Everyone (who chose to) elected a representative to vote on his or
her behalf, but elections were based on number of supporters, not
on geographical districts. So I in Pittsburgh could choose to be
represented by someone from Oregon, or Kenya. Thus there were no
representatives who represented 50.1% of the electorate; every one
represented his or her voters.
By default, the representative could cast one vote for every
100,000 (say) voters who supported him or her. And on any given
issue, the representative just voted as s/he felt best. But at
any time a voter felt that his or her representative no longer
truly represented the voter, then the voter could just walk over
to the 2060 version of a TRS-80 and shift his or her support to
another legislator. Thus, congress became quite responsive to the
public, as any legislator might find him or herself out of office
for a poor vote -- or at least, holding reduced voting power on
the floor.
This mechanism seems to combine the best features of a parliamentary
system with the representative democracy, while making use of current
technology. It does seem strange to be relying on 200+ year old pro-
cedures which were based on a very limited communications capability
when we can talk at the speed of light (or at 300 baud, in my case).
I think it is the case that we will not have a President-elect
until the first week in January, when the electoral college meets
and casts their official ballots. After all, 200 years ago, it took
from November to January just to get the results to Washington!
Bill Sholar <SHOLAR@CMUA>
------------------------------
Date: 08 Nov 1980 1210-PST
From: TAW at SU-AI
Subject: Voyager flyby of Saturn
Subject: [ Final message in this issue ]
1 9 8 0 : A S A T U R N O D Y S S E Y
You are invited to a two day journey through time and space on
NOVEMBER 11 and 12, 1980 at the SAN FRANCISCO PALACE OF FINE ARTS. If
you are daring enough to attend this epic adventure, you'll experience
SATURN and its mysterious moons relayed directly to the Palace of Fine
Arts as if you were traveling on board the starship Voyager.
Your tourguides for the journey will be:
BEN BOVA
science fiction author and
executive editor of OMNI magazine.
JAMES "SCOTTY" DOOHAN BARBARA MARX HUBBARD
of the Starship Enterprise. Committee for the Future.
In addition there will be films, slides, and video reports on
the space programs' dramatic saga accompanied by synthesizer music
and laser special effects.
A N D
The first COLOR pictures from the mysterious moon of TITAN.
These images will be EXCLUSIVELY at the Palace of Fine Arts and
are UNAVAILABLE anywhere else on Earth.
Exhibit hall opens at 11 a.m. at no charge. Show time 7:30 p.m.
For information, phone: (408) 741-1189 or ARPAnet mail to TAW@SU-AI.
VOYAGER ENCOUNTERS SATURN
Presented by
San Francisco Section of the American Astronautical Society
and
The Viking Fund
in association with
OMNI Magazine
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂11-Nov-80 0713 DEK special privileges
Please tell me what I need to do so that Autologout has more of
the deference due to a distinguished professor like myself. Thanks,
∂11-Nov-80 1145 FFL CIS MEETING
To: JMC, FFL
The meeting on Thursday has been postpponed until ll a.m. on Friday.
Do you want me to have them order you a sandwich so you can stay
through lunch?
∂11-Nov-80 1455 Solomon.Datanet at MIT-Multics
Date: 11 November 1980 17:55 est
From: Solomon.Datanet at MIT-Multics
To: John McCarthy <JMC at SU-AI>
cc: Solomon.Datanet at MIT-Multics (crisis.sv)
In-Reply-To: Msg of 11/10/80 21:57 from John McCarthy
Some quick thoughts on your conversation notes re emergency
database planning:
One of the most critical areas will be public reassurance. this will
takes differing forms deending on the crisis. In an oil
emergency the general public will need to know where gasoline is
available, what to do about heating fuel, whether any
restrictions have been placed on travel to selected spots, etc.
The last two gas shortages created a mess whereby people drove
almost aimlessly on rumors and hunches looking for open stations.
(In my town, the gas stations got organized pretty qucikly and
made it clear that all town residents would be served by telephone
appointment. This left transients out in the cold, but at least
we stopped driving t neiboring villages for gas; one dealer refused
to cooperate and instead sold gas by appointment only to drivers
who paid a stiff premium. he was fined by the feds for that.)
Somehow, I feel that a teletext or viewdata system might suffice
for such information display about local gasoline supplies, but
not without very careful planning. This alone could
spur some movement on national standards for veiwdata.~
An alternative system might make use of touch-tone input, perhaps
in conjujction with automatic subscriber identification for
sector location purposes, and computer-generated voice
output listing stations, hours, and allotments per customer for
gasline supplies. Even rationing won't suffice if
some stations have spot severe shortages. Automatice monitoring
of service station sales and tank levels would also help reporting
requirment for an energy allocation plan. (And might spot
abuses).
Supermarkets POS machinesm imight be sampled to
spot potential food distribution anamolies, but desinging the
sample would be hairy. There is much horading of basic commodities
anyway by distributors because of
the futures markets. We're getting into heavy areas of agricultural
economics and i would want consult with some expertise here. One
of the problems will be deregualtion of ag transport,and truck
transport. Where, in the past, a lot of reporting was required
for other purposes, it is now being eliminated (for good
reason in normal times). The rails do not do much better in tracking
commdoities, but should. Perhaps this would be an incentive to
install a workable national freight car tracking system.
One of the basic problems will be injustifying a preparedness system
in normal times when the free market tends to do better without
coordinated information. This could follow the lines for national
resource reserves -- but look at the problems the petroleum reserve
is having. Still, as Vail used to say, it should be done because
it surely will be necessary.
General reassring types of info would be good too. But only
if the public perceives positive feedback. If the gas info works,
peole will feel that the gov't has its handle on the problem. Buty
if it sends them on wild goose chases, such a system will sow
mistrust (already at a high level because of the crisis) and might
backfire by producing panic, hoarding at greater levels,
and less chance of the next idea being accepted. Rationing, alone,
may cause that if mishandled.
System security will be essential to prevent black-market manipulation, false leads, misinformation, and mis-allocation of resources. I suspect
that even if we had never broached the subject of crisis-communications,
the mere exisitence of teletext or computer-based systems (or even
300,000 home computers) would lead someone in authority to
attempt such systems in a crisis -- particularly something to do
with emergency resource allocation. That premise, alone,
is justification for studying the concept well in advance, just
to get a better handle on the pitfalls as well as the utility
of such ideas. At a minimum, radio and TV stations may be confronted
with the application of such systems, and we had better think
through just houw they will use them. Imagine NS being offered to
newscasters today for all the wire services. Will they understand
the best method of restrospective search, or is there a
danger of panic, (searching the wrong days, as I have done
occasionally, and not knowing it), and accelerating the spread of
mis-information or rumor?
richard
∂11-Nov-80 1548 BIS
∂11-Nov-80 1445 JMC
Can you come to 356 at 1:30 Thurs to tell Thompson people about robot work?
BIS - My pleasure. See you then.
∂11-Nov-80 1815 ROB LIB.LST
To: JMC
CC: FFL, PAT
I restored the long lost file to LIB.LST[1,JMC] for want of a better place
to put it. Although DART announced that the file was restored without
problems, you might want to give the file a quick perusal for errors.
- Rob
∂11-Nov-80 2100 JMC*
Call Jerry about visit next week.
∂12-Nov-80 0006 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 12 NOV 1980 0306-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: JMC at SU-AI
Date: 05 Nov 1980 0105-PST
From: John McCarthy <JMC at SU-AI>
I have created a directory 1,jxp for
Jerry Pournelle
12051 Laurel Terrace
Studio City, California 91604
213 762-2256
It should get one aliquot and its costs should be charged to 2FCZ601.
Thanks/. Have been concerned with Saturn for last few days,
only jhust now reading my mail. More later. Best,
JEP
∂12-Nov-80 0137 JPM Voyager NS file
I have been keeping a Voyager NS file on VOYGER.NS[T,JPM].
I've sent mail to Jerry and SF-LOVERS about it. I thought you
would like to know. Feel free to tell anyone about it.
The file is updated about twice a day.
jim
∂12-Nov-80 0236 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #133
Date: 12 NOV 1980 0533-EST
From: DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II)
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #133
To: HUMAN-NETS at MIT-AI
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Wednesday, 12 Nov 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 133
Today's Topics:
Home Info Systems - Comment, Communicating via Network - Polling,
People and Computers - Professional Involvement,
Speech - We would love your voice!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 11 November 1980 0937-EST
From: Hank Walker at CMU-10A
Subject: Re Source article
I believe that Digital is a registered trademark of DEC and it is
confusing to me when used to mean another company.
------------------------------
SIRBU@MIT-MC 11/11/80 11:06:40 Re: electronic voting machines
"workman-like manner" is a lawyers phrase which means if it isn't
fit for what it's supposed to do, the vendor is at fault. Your
list of possible threats was interesting, but I certainly don't
want my legislators wasting their time trying to spell all of
them out in a bill. Rather, I want them to delegate evaluation
to a committee of knowlegeable experts. I don't think whoever
is charged with appointing the committee will have much trouble
deciding whether Joe Newcomer's experience programming a 407
makes him the most appropriate appointee. Moreover, there are
many civic-minded citizens who will consult for the government
for a "mere" $150/day. After all, your state legislator works
full time for a lot less than that.
------------------------------
Date: 10 Nov 1980 0219-PST
From: Jim McGrath <JPM at SU-AI>
Subject: the human interface
From the AP:
As computer specialists advance in their profession, they're
more and more compelled to "interface" with people and many of
them have trouble with that, the trade magazine Datamation says.
"They find it difficult to deal with resolving conflicts and
personal communications," the magazine reports.
"You can't yell at the computer, so you yell at your wife, or
husband. This scenario all too often is played out among married
computer people. Among the nation's professionals, only air
traffic controllers have a higher divorce rate. Psychologists
see this result as the unfortunate but natural outcome of the
high degree of stress most data processing managers suffer,"
the magazine says.
There is some hope, Datamation adds. As the field develops,
stress should be reduced, but one problem will remain:
"No matter what working hours are needed, people who become
professionals in the data processing industry may really care
more about their work than anything else in their lives."
Jim
------------------------------
Date: 10 November 1980 1252-EST (Monday)
From: Joe.Newcomer at CMU-10A
Subject: We Would Love Your Voice
Found posted on a physical bboard in our hallway:
We Would Love Your Voice
Our company is named Verbex, and we make machines to recognize words
spoken by the human voice. The only way we can teach a computer to
recognize speech is by feeding it lots and lots of speech. Currently,
we are trying to teach our computers to recognize telephone numbers,
and so we need to collect lots of people saying lots of different
telephone numbers. We have absolutely no use for the numbers them-
selves. We're only interested in how different people sound when
they say different numbers.
If you would like to help us in this task, please call 800-343-4450.
This is a toll-free number so you will not be charged for the call.
You will receive very brief instructions when you call. But to be
more explicit, when you hear the beep wait a second or two and then
say any phone number you want. Try to speak in a clear, natural,
relatively loud voice, but please don't shout or yell. After saying
your number, pause for a second or two and then just hang up.
It turns out that different numbers sound differently depending on
what numbers were said before and after them. Therefore, it is
important that we collect a variety of different numbers. So don't
say a number which other people calling in are likely to say. For
example, don't say 123-4567 or 111-1111 or the number you are calling,
800-343-4450. To reassure you, we really have no intentions of ever
calling the numbers themselves or giving them out to anybody, so feel
free to say your own number, or the number of a friend. Or just make
up some number at random if you want.
The phone will be hooked up 24 hours a day until about Thanksgiving.
Please do not call more than once since we do not want any one voice
represented more than any other in our data.
Also, if you would give this note to all your friends, family,
colleagues, etc. it would be greatly appreciated. Believe it or
not, it is extremely tough to collect enough different voices,
and we can use all the help we can get.
Thank you very much.
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂12-Nov-80 0911 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE Binford
Date: 12 Nov 1980 0910-PST
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Subject: Binford
To: jmc at SU-AI
How are you coming with the Binford papers?
-------
I haven't started yet on Binford papers. Perhaps I can do them next
week.
∂12-Nov-80 1004 Nilsson at SRI-KL Chinese Scholar
Date: 12 Nov 1980 1005-PST
From: Nilsson at SRI-KL
Subject: Chinese Scholar
To: JMC at SU-AI
cc: Nilsson
John, I just received a letter from a Chinese student, Tie Cheng
Wang (working under a Lou Oi Ming). He apparently is under the
impression that I am connected with a university, and wants to come
to the US and work under me. He also needs financial assistance.
From his letter he sounds pretty bright. Might there be any
possibilities for him at Stanford? I would be glad to work with
him if he becomes a student at Stanford, or perhaps he would want
to work with you. I'm sending a copy of his letter and an abstract
of a paper to you by ID mail. Let me know if you want to follow up
on this. Otherwise, I will merely refer him to the various US
universities with good AI programs. --Nils
-------
When the letter comes, I will arrange for him to be sent
application material. We are treating applicants from China like
any others, but he will have to act quickly if he is to get in
an application by our January 15 deadline for the PhD program,
although there is more time for the MS program.
∂12-Nov-80 1131 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
The CIS meeting which was rescheduled for Friday at ll a.m. is now canceled.
No meeting will be planned until Dr. Gibbons returns sometime next week.
∂12-Nov-80 1140 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE Doug Lenat
Date: 12 Nov 1980 1131-PST
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Subject: Doug Lenat
To: csd.buchanan at SU-SCORE, tw at SU-AI, jmc at SU-AI, rwf at SU-AI
I would like the four of you, with Buchanan as chairman, to be a committee
to look into the reappointment of Doug lenat. The criterion for reappointemnt
as assistant professor is that there be some reasonable chance that he
will eventually be promoted to tenure. You should verify that his teaching
performance is adequate or better and gather letters of reccommendation making
relative comparisions with people at a similar stage if this is possible.
Five letters will be adequate.
The deadline for action BY THE DEPARTMENT is Jan. 5, so we need a proposal from
you somewhat earlier.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
-------
∂12-Nov-80 1401 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Dan Mills investigating for the Department of Defense, wishes to speak
to you about E. Levinthal. His number is 56 739 0328.
∂12-Nov-80 1457 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
J. Reidt (I think that was the name - bad connectin) of IBM Germany
called. He will call back Thursday about 1:30 p.m. He wants to speak
with you about a symposium which IBM is organizing in September 1981.
∂12-Nov-80 1545 TW via SU-TIP Lenat
To: csd.ullman at SU-SCORE
CC: JMC at SU-AI, RWF at SU-AI, TW at SU-AI,
csd.buchanan at SU-SCORE
Being on leave this quarter it really isn't possible to participate in
the leg work for Doug's reappointment. I would be glad to discuss my
own feelings about it on the phone or by net mail, but won't be back
in time to help with getting together a dossier before the deadline
at the start of next quarter.
--terry
∂12-Nov-80 1635 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Date: 12 Nov 1980 1633-PST
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
To: JMC at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 12-Nov-80 1542-PST
Please do. Talking with Jim Rosse, I am more encouraged that the case
will go through, but we've got to get the papers in.
-------
∂13-Nov-80 0239 SEK
John -- here's the proposed programming problem. Originally proposed in a
letter to Martin Gardner. Named after Linus Van Pelt, who was trying to
outguess his teacher's true/false exam in Peanuts. Should take 20 to 30 minutes
to program.
The Linus sequence Linus(i) is an infinite sequence of 1's and 0's defined
as follows:
Linus(1) = 1
Linus(i) = the number which breaks the longest "pattern" which
is threatening to occur,
where a "pattern" is defined to be two consecutive occurrences of the same
string of 1's and 0's. The length of a pattern is defined to be the length
of one of its halves. For instance,
Length Pattern
------ -------
1 0 0
1 1 1
2 1 0 1 0
3 1 0 1 1 0 1
4 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 1
The first 12 terms of the Linus sequence are:
1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1
Linus(2)=0 since otherwise we create the length 1 pattern "1 1". Clearly
the next term in the Linus sequence is always forced, since we can always
break a pattern of at least length 1. Linus(4) avoids the pattern "1 0 1 0".
Linus(12) creates the pattern "1 0 1 1 0 1", but avoids the longer pattern
"1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0".
Problem. Write the function LINUS[u] which appends the next term in the Linus
sequence to the beginning of u, where u is a list of the form
[Linus(n), Linus(n-1), Linus(n-2)... Linus(2), Linus(1)]
∂13-Nov-80 0959 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Larry Pfeffer called from Israel. Said he would be in touch again.
∂13-Nov-80 1001 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Zohar says he will meet you at the Faculty Club at 12:15. He is
presently at SRI.
∂13-Nov-80 1002 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Peter Gordon of Addison-Wesley is on campus today and will be stopping
by about 2 p.m., hoping to have a few minutes to talk with you.
∂13-Nov-80 1025 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Dr. Susan Newman, Computer Science Editor, would like to talk to you re conversation
with Roger Vaughn. Pls. call at 9 854 6020.
∂13-Nov-80 1043 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai)
Date: 13 Nov 1980 1039-PST
From: CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai)
To: JMC at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 5-Nov-80 1423-PST
John, Brian Reid is scheduled for Jan. 13. Jan 20 and 27 are being held
pending word from Prof. Hoffman of West Germany to see which date he wants
to give a colloq. Would you be willing to take the one he doesn't choose?
Otherwise, Feb. 3, 10, 17, 24, and Mar. 3 and 10 are open.
Please advise.
Carolyn
-------
Holding it open is fine.
∂13-Nov-80 1156 Konolige at SRI-KL seminar
Date: 13 Nov 1980 1156-PST
From: Konolige at SRI-KL
Subject: seminar
To: jmc at SAIL
John, I'll need a view-graph projector for this afternoon's seminar.
--kk
-------
∂13-Nov-80 1332 FWH PV+A Seminar
To: "@SEM.DIS[SEM,VER]" at SU-AI
There will not be an official session of the Program Verification
and Analysis Seminar on Nov. 18. The next session is on Nov. 25
with Keith Clark, Imperial College, London, speaking on IC-Prolog.
Abstract to follow next week.
∂14-Nov-80 0331 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #135
Date: 14 NOV 1980 0628-EST
From: DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II)
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #135
To: HUMAN-NETS at MIT-AI
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Friday, 14 Nov 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 135
Today's Topics:
Communicating via Network - Responsibility and mailing lists,
Election '80 - Impact of information,
People and Computers - Professional Involvement
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 13 Nov 1980 1031-PST
From: David Lowe <DLO at SU-AI>
Subject: mutually reinforcing cliques
I previously proposed that consideration be given to banning "secret"
mailing lists because of the tendency of all user controlled media
sources to generate ever more distorted news to reinforce readership
opinions. Public access would presumably allow some outside correc-
tions to be voiced in the worst cases.
Lauren Weinstein said in response that he "could hardly think of
a more oppressive concept" and compared this "control of informa-
tion flow" to totalitarianism. Well, disclosure requirements are
quite common and important already in our society, particularly
in government and financial transactions, with a general result
of increased rather than decreased freedom. I did not mean that
personal mail should be disclosed, but only media sources (maybe
those with more than a threshold number of subscribers).
Maybe we have a case of mutual reinforcement in Human-Nets, in
which most people want to believe that electronic communications
will make us better off and will increase the amount and accuracy
of information available to us all, while subject only to market
forces. There are some reasons why this may not be what will
happen.
------------------------------
Date: 5 Nov 1980 15:33:16-PST
From: menlo70!daul at Berkeley
Subject: VOTE PROJECTION vs WEST COAST
It is a shame that the election was over before the polls closed on
the west coast. Perhaps everyone west of the Mississippi should vote
absentee ballot. Those votes are usually counted before the election
day. WHA DO YA THINK OF THEM APPLES OR ORANGES?
------------------------------
Date: 13 Nov 1980 2220-PST (Thursday)
From: Lauren at UCLA-SECURITY (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: voting in the West
On the subject of early election returns and their effect on voting
in the West:
------------------------------
WASHINGTON (AP) - An Idaho senator, saying he wants to
"re-enfranchise" people living in later time zones, is proposing
legislation that would prohibit the broadcasting of presidential
election returns until polls have closed throughout the country.
Sen. James McClure said Wednesday that when he and his wife
arrived at the polls in Payette, Idaho, to vote at 5:30 p.m. MST
election day, they had already heard on their car radio that the
networks were calling Ronald Reagan the winner and that President
Carter was ready to concede.
McClure said he was concerned about "the right of each and
every American to cast their ballots assured that their votes
will count."
------------------------------
--Lauren--
------------------------------
Date: 13 Nov 1980 1553-PST
From: Brian K. Reid <CSL.BKR at SU-SCORE>
Subject: Divorce Rate
A comment on Hank Walker's statistic about divorces of EE and
computer people: According to the San Jose Mercury/News, the
total number of divorces in Santa Clara County in the period
1975-1980 was greater than the number of marriages in the
county during the same period. A huge number of the people
around here are EE's.
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂14-Nov-80 0835 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
A student, David Sieradski, called to ask for an appointment. He is an
engineering student who is writing a paper on "The Edge of Technology,"
and wishes to speak with you. (328-1664)
∂14-Nov-80 0907 Waldinger at SRI-KL abstract for seminar talk
Date: 14 Nov 1980 0908-PST
From: Waldinger at SRI-KL
Subject: abstract for seminar talk
To: ffl at SAIL
cc: jmc at SAIL
here is an abstract for a possible talk in the thursday
afternoon seminar:
Bombs, Divorce, and the Weather:
The Problem of Action in a Changing World
Richard Waldinger
SRI International
ABSTRACT
A formalism for planning should be able to deal with the following
phenomena:
* Actions may change the names of objects.
* Plans may have loops and branches.
* Once you have performed an action in a given state, that
state no longer exists.
We will concentrate on NONnonmonotonic reasoning in real-world,
blocks-world, and program-synthesis domains.
It would be best if i had two weeks to prepare.
richard
-------
∂14-Nov-80 0950 PAM
Did you retrieve power supply for chess loser? I have some supplies
that might do if it seems to be really gone..Paul
No, it didn't show up, and it would be worthwhile to see if one of
yours works. I recall it labelled 9 volts. Thanks. John
∂14-Nov-80 1235 LGC Seminar Abstract
Appended below is a copy of my msg to Fran with next week's seminar abstract.
I'm sorry I couldn't finish it earlier, but I lost the equivalent of a full
working day to car trouble after we talked late on Tuesday, and the selection
of topics to emphasize was not as easy as I had hoped. -- Lew
-------
∂14-Nov-80 1156 LGC Seminar Abstract
To: FFL
Fran, here's my abstract for next week's session of the
Knowledge and Action Seminar:
---------------
ON THE LOGIC OF CAUSAL REASONING: THE FRAME AND QUALIFICATION PROBLEMS
This talk will present an account of causal reasoning as it figures in the
planning of actions, within the framework of a more general "competing
considerations" approach to commonsense reasoning. The main focus will be on
solution of the frame and qualification problems, with discussions of the
logical forms of the various premises required, the logical form of the
conclusions reached, and the nature of the rules of inference involved. These
"logical" issues will be distinguished from issues of memory organization and
retrieval, and this distinction will be compared with McCarthy's distinction
between epistemology and heuristics. Time permitting, a brief discussion will
also be given of the non-extensionality of causal contexts, the subjunctive
nature of planning conditionals, and a Neo-Fregean approach to the
truth-semantics of languages capable of expressing such notions.
Lew, it seems to me that you are trying to cover too much ground in the talk.
∂14-Nov-80 1733 TOB
I will. It is only yesterday that the request reached me.
∂14-Nov-80 1731 JMC
Please get that NSF Final report in, so NSF will ccnsider my proposal.
∂14-Nov-80 2124 TOB expiration of NSF
To: BS at SU-AI, JMC at SU-AI
I think that it is not yet completed. We have 6 months
from Sept 1, 1980.
However, I have finished the report.
Please check with the official that it is the grant they are referring
to.
∂14-Nov-80 2154 PAM
∂14-Nov-80 1036 JMC
No, it didn't show up, and it would be worthwhile to see if one of
yours works. I recall it labelled 9 volts. Thanks. John
It will need some work, but I now have time to fix it..I'll bring one in..
Paul
∂15-Nov-80 0045 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 15 NOV 1980 0345-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: JMC at SU-AI
Date: 12 Nov 1980 0009-PST
From: John McCarthy <JMC at SU-AI>
Will anyone be disturbed if I phone? No-one but me here now.
Obviously I didn't see that one. My phone for next few weeks is
the phone I log in on so no possibility of telephoning me unless
I get off the computer line.
Saturn was spectacular. Minsky was here. You should have been,
as it was loverly, but what the hell.
We have a chance to have real influence on Regan administrtation
if we have a good thought out position re sciene and technology
and energy and space. Any tyhoughts? We have a route to get
decent ideas a decent hearing.
JEP
∂15-Nov-80 0141 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) visit
Date: 15 NOV 1980 0440-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: visit
To: JMC at SU-AI
I will be home tomorrow. I am going to bed now. I am preparing
a position papr (2000 words) on space missions and philsophy
which will be given to space advisor (and probably to Reagan)
next week. I have to get a draft done by Monday. Any inputs
will be considered. Things look good for science and technology
in next administration.
Best, JEP
∂15-Nov-80 0521 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
Date: 15 NOV 1980 0301-EST
From: MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
To: MINSKY at MIT-ML, llw at SU-AI, jmc at SU-AI, forward at USC-ISI
Lowell -- I wonder if you have an idea about making a high-speed
starship with very low payload? I want to accelerate a payload of a
mere few milligrams. Can you think of a way to approach light-speed
given that the payload is a mere milligram?
The idea is: to argue that CETI -- communication with extraterrestrial
intelligence -- is best done, not by radio as usually argued, but by
going there "in person" -- that is, in the form of tiny AI machines.
I doubt that you or I need more than a trillion bits, and that could
be embodied, with redundancy in far less than a milligram. The
machine would use the rest of the milligram for its body, which would
be like that of a dust-mite (which is less than a milligram and
appears to have some mechanical desterity).
The traveller is to find a planet and descend (somehow). Then, using
its great intelligence, it will feed, and replicate itself, until it
has the resources to build large-scale factories and launchers, to
bring back the knowledge collected. (Unless it decides not to---.)
To decelerate seems as bad a problem as to accelerate. However, I
note that if we are near light-speed then a solar sail gets efficient,
since the photons coming from ahead have more momentum than usual.
But I guess this is no use if our ship is merely fast, e.g., 1/10
lightspeed.
Anyhow, I don't think people have appreciated the value of milligram
starships. Do you see any neat way to build them, and have them turn
around and return -- starting, say, with with a few millions grams
initially? This gives us a mass ratio of 10**10 at moderate cost.
In fact, if pressed, we can probably squeeze the intelligence to a
microgram -- which would be like a paramecium with a better-than-DNA
memory. But this would take a few more years of miniaturization.
Then we have mass ration like 10**13.
Finally, I suppose we could send a dumb one, with only a billion bits
of memory, suggesting mass ratio of 10**16. The resulting explorer
might compete with radio, which requires an answerer.
We'd like it to be within an order-of-magnitude of lightspeed, or else
no one will pay for it. So I wonder if you know any easy schemes to
make micro-payload starships.
--- marvin
∂16-Nov-80 1359 TOB final report
To: JMC at SU-AI, BS at SU-AI
A second draft of the final report is in Marianne's
hands.
∂16-Nov-80 2030 LLW Going Relativistic In A Big Way
To: minsky at MIT-ML
CC: LLW at SU-AI, JMC at SU-AI, RAH at SU-AI,
forward at USC-ISI, pourne at MIT-MC
∂15-Nov-80 0521 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
Date: 15 NOV 1980 0301-EST
From: MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
To: MINSKY at MIT-ML, llw at SU-AI, jmc at SU-AI, forward at USC-ISI
Lowell -- I wonder if you have an idea about making a high-speed starship
with very low payload? I want to accelerate a payload of a mere few
milligrams. Can you think of a way to approach light-speed given that the
payload is a mere milligram?
The idea is: to argue that CETI -- communication with extraterrestrial
intelligence -- is best done, not by radio as usually argued, but by going
there "in person" -- that is, in the form of tiny AI machines. I doubt
that you or I need more than a trillion bits, and that could be embodied,
with redundancy in far less than a milligram. The machine would use the
rest of the milligram for its body, which would be like that of a
dust-mite (which is less than a milligram and appears to have some
mechanical desterity).
The traveller is to find a planet and descend (somehow). Then, using its
great intelligence, it will feed, and replicate itself, until it has the
resources to build large-scale factories and launchers, to bring back the
knowledge collected. (Unless it decides not to---.)
To decelerate seems as bad a problem as to accelerate. However, I note
that if we are near light-speed then a solar sail gets efficient, since
the photons coming from ahead have more momentum than usual. But I guess
this is no use if our ship is merely fast, e.g., 1/10 lightspeed.
Anyhow, I don't think people have appreciated the value of milligram
starships. Do you see any neat way to build them, and have them turn
around and return -- starting, say, with with a few millions grams
initially? This gives us a mass ratio of 10**10 at moderate cost.
In fact, if pressed, we can probably squeeze the intelligence to a
microgram -- which would be like a paramecium with a better-than-DNA
memory. But this would take a few more years of miniaturization. Then we
have mass ration like 10**13.
Finally, I suppose we could send a dumb one, with only a billion bits of
memory, suggesting mass ratio of 10**16. The resulting explorer might
compete with radio, which requires an answerer.
We'd like it to be within an order-of-magnitude of lightspeed, or else no
one will pay for it. So I wonder if you know any easy schemes to make
micro-payload starships.
--- marvin
[Dear Marvin:
What you want to do is not only possible at the present time--it's easy!
We do it routinely around here for microgram quantities of matter, and
could do it quite readily for milligram quantities, given the motivation.
If you'll recall The Mote In God's Eye, Niven and Pournell had their first
interstellar-travelling Motie employ a propulsion technique which has been
documented in the (Soviet) literature for over a decade--laser ablation of
the rear end of something you want to make go forward. This approach
avoids the miserable staging ratios you have to accept when trying to
attain relativistic velocities using (even) thermonuclear fuel stored
on-board, in that you get to attach as much (or as little) on-board mass
to a unit of externally supplied energy as you please (within very wide
limits), just by playing with the intensity-time history of the incoming
energy (thereby permitting the optimum use of the mass which you do carry
along, since you're now unconstrained from having to liberate energy from
it). This dial-your-desired-specific-impulse is *the* key to success in
meeting your requirement, once I stipulate that I can accelerate the
payload without imposing *any* hydrodynamic shock loadings on it.
(Indeed, it is well-known locally how to accelerate a human up to
relativisitic velocities *and* keep him alive during the process, *if* you
have sufficient interest in doing so; however, it would be expensive with
present technology. Nonetheless, I'd be willing to take a fixed-price
contract to accelerate a gram of patterned silicon to, say, half-light
speed at a peak acceleration of perhaps 10 million gees and *no shock or
shear loadings*, with a due-date three years hence, just for the thrill of
watching the bang! Any further mechanistic hints along these directions
might be felonious on my part, so I'll desist.)
Can't you pose a *challenging* problem?
Lowell]
∂16-Nov-80 2319 FORWARD at USC-ECL Relativistic milligrams
Date: 16 NOV 1980 2319-PST
From: FORWARD at USC-ECL
Subject: Relativistic milligrams
To: LLW at SU-AI, JMC at SU-AI, RAH at SU-AI, MINSKY at MIT-ML,
To: POURNE at MIT-AI
cc: FORWARD
The idea of trying to design a minimal weight interstellar probe
is a good one, and Lowell Wood's thoughts on a laser ablation
design is probably the right way to go, since all the complexity is in
the laser transmitter and lens system. This would probably be better than
a laser driven light sail, since the sail is a fairly complex system
in itself. (A point of minor correction. Mote in God's Eye used a
laser driven sail based on an article in the 2 April 1962 issue of
Missiles and Rockets, rather than a laser ablation technique.)
One thing, Lowell, which I am sure that can be handled with
proper design of the ablation layer. There are two ways to
get a laser sail to decelerate and stop at the destination. How do you
get a laser ablation system to decelerate and stop using the beam
from the launching system. Mirrors? (to divert the light around to the
leading edge?) How about a rapidly spinning object where the delay between
the absorbtion of energy into the ablating layer and the later
blowoff of hot material causes the thrust to be oposite to the beam.
'Tis late. Will think more on it tomorrow. Meanwhile, please
note that I am at USC-ECL, not ISI.
Bob
-------
∂17-Nov-80 0112 LLW Interstellar Eigen-Packages
To: forward at USC-ECL
CC: LLW at SU-AI, minsky at MIT-ML, JMC at SU-AI, RAH at SU-AI,
pourne at MIT-AI
∂16-Nov-80 2319 FORWARD at USC-ECL Relativistic milligrams
Date: 16 NOV 1980 2319-PST
From: FORWARD at USC-ECL
Subject: Relativistic milligrams
To: LLW at SU-AI, JMC at SU-AI, RAH at SU-AI, MINSKY at MIT-ML,
To: POURNE at MIT-AI
cc: FORWARD
The idea of trying to design a minimal weight interstellar probe
is a good one, and Lowell Wood's thoughts on a laser ablation
design is probably the right way to go, since all the complexity is in
the laser transmitter and lens system. This would probably be better than
a laser driven light sail, since the sail is a fairly complex system
in itself. (A point of minor correction. Mote in God's Eye used a
laser driven sail based on an article in the 2 April 1962 issue of
Missiles and Rockets, rather than a laser ablation technique.)
One thing, Lowell, which I am sure that can be handled with
proper design of the ablation layer. There are two ways to
get a laser sail to decelerate and stop at the destination. How do you
get a laser ablation system to decelerate and stop using the beam
from the launching system. Mirrors? (to divert the light around to the
leading edge?) How about a rapidly spinning object where the delay between
the absorbtion of energy into the ablating layer and the later
blowoff of hot material causes the thrust to be oposite to the beam.
'Tis late. Will think more on it tomorrow. Meanwhile, please
note that I am at USC-ECL, not ISI.
Bob
-------
[Dear Bob:
Since I suffer from an excess of bosses, I don't have the (relatively
copious) quantities of free time which permit Rod to re-read his
favorite SF whenever he pleases; this consideration (which caused me to
enjoy only a single pass through Mote when I was able to tear it from
Rod's hands very shortly after it came out), compounded by senile memory
failure, caused me to attribute to Niven & Pournelle a much superior mode
of space travel than they actually made available to the poor interstellar
junketing Motie.
As is quite clear upon a moment's reflection (but which literal hordes
have missed understanding for many years), photons have the world's worst
momentum-to-energy ratio. Thus, if you only have a limited quantity of
them available (and who has an unlimited quantity?), it's far preferable
to load them onto a quantity of matter so sized that its internal energy
density (and thus kinetic energy density, as soon as the resulting gas is
processed through some sort of nozzle) is made comparable to the kinetic
energy density of the attached mass (e.g., the payload) whose velocity is
to be altered. In this fashion, one need use only an amount of mass
comparable to that of the payload to achieve roughly an e-fold speed
variation of it, realizing in the process an energy conservation of the
order of the ratio of light speed to the adiabatic sound speed in the gas
so generated and exhausted.
The mass thus required to brake from (or accelerate to) relativistic
momentum densities to (from) those characteristic of stellar escape speeds
is respectable, but the energy saving is enormous. (A hybridized approach
is probably the optimal one, the exact balance depending on how relatively
precious mass and radiant energy are at the location/time wherewhen you
need to accelerate/decelerate--accelerating/braking by sail-reflecting
starlight or an interstellar laser beam at near-light speeds is reasonably
efficient, and saves a few e-foldings of mass ratio; ablative momentum
alteration is correspondingly preferred at lower speeds, whether
accelerating in your own stellar system or decelerating in the next one).
Spinning to re-direct ablation products is not too efficient an approach
when attempting to change the speed of something which is already
travelling at a multiple of its internal (elastic wave) sound speed--the
centrifugal stresses associated with moving the hot surface from the back
to the front before the heated material moves a significant distance will
disrupt the rotating body in a fraction of a revolution, as you're
requiring the payload's surface velocity to at least be comparable to the
blowoff velocity. Using a mirror to flip the direction of the radiation
beam (or the light from a nearby target star) before focussing it onto the
ablation surface (actually, doing both in the same operation) is far
preferable; the momentum loss in so doing is trivial, compared to that to
be had from the ensuing ablation.
My earlier note to Marvin as to how to haul the light across interstellar
distances without too much spillage is below; it's merely an exercise in
phase front synthesis/control by Fourier sampling of the flavor which our
DoD laser community friends do routinely these days.
My hunch is that it's always good engineering practice to send anything
(e.g., a fistful of photons) from where it's readily available in a
package characteristic to it, rather than to lazily cram it into a package
characteristic to something else of a fundamentally different nature
(e.g., people, silicon bugs), particularly when the packaging is as cheap
as it is for photons in vacuum. Thus, sending the energy/momentum needed
to directly or indirectly (via ablation) drop impulse onto an interstellar
vehicle is much better accomplished by continuously sending it on a tight
beam than it is to try to entangle it reversibly in matter which has to be
carried along in people/silicon packages, and then liberated therefrom
(usually in an awkward and inefficient fashion). Even the here-and-now
approach which I mentioned earlier this evening to Marvin for
non-destructively pushing his silicon bugs up to relativistic speeds has
this quality.
Lowell]
∂16-Nov-80 2156 LLW Slamming On The Brakes
To: minsky at MIT-ML
CC: LLW at SU-AI, RAH at SU-AI
∂16-Nov-80 2041 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
Date: 16 NOV 1980 2335-EST
From: MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
To: MINSKY at MIT-ML, llw at SU-AI
Well, you didn't say how to decellerate it. Also, how to focus the laser
once the thing gets a good distance away.
To decellerate it in the near-beam field, I guess on can use a mirror
hack and ablate the far-side of the projectile. But if I want to
slow the thing down at Promima C., I don't have a respectable plan.
I don't suppose there's any galactic braking facility?
[Marvin:
You and Rod always want to stop at the other end! Don't you realize that
getting there is all the fun?!?
Throwing the light onto your micro-ship's front side and blowing it off is
technically quite feasible, using either laser light from where you
started *or* focussed starlight from where you're trying to park, even if
it's at Proxima Centauri. The laser focussing is *quite*
straightforward--you make a `mirror' with a few hundred sub-Palomar-size
elements-in-steering-racks strung out over the Earth's orbital plane, and
play a log-periodic Fourier aperture synthesis game to generate a beam
that focuses wherever you want it to, with a 10 attoradian beam divergence
(e.g., one capable of laying down a 10 cm diameter spot at 1 light-year
distance). One thing that won't work (though Rod and I tried quite hard
several years ago to force it) is slowing down with a solar sail against
radiation pressure from your new stellar home. (However, if you focus
this incident radiation onto mass which you carry to ablate it away, the
resulting impulse magnification by the photon-dressed mass will do the
job, even from relativistic speeds.)
No, I haven't seen any ads recently for galactic braking facilities.
Lowell]
∂17-Nov-80 0227 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 17 NOV 1980 0526-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: JMC at SU-AI
1. ambitious editor exists, so long as you understand that
nobody is likely to get rich out of a book on interstellar
travel.
2. Sagan on tonight's COSMOS says we will go to stars, which
makes it official, Sagan now being the official spokecreature
for THE COSMOS (Moses without Jehovah?) Sagan, although quite
friendly to SF people a year ago, invited none of us to his
party held at Saturn encounter (although he knew we were all in
town and had previously invited us all out to the TV station so
we would publicise his TV series). I doubt he would cooperate
with the interstellar project. Ah, well.
3. What it amounts to is we could get a book out, (if I agreed
to puyt my name on the cover) but the advance would be very low;
it wouldn't make much money; it would sell about 50,000 copies,
if written in a popular science vein. Do you still want it
under those circumstances?
What I actually had in mind was a technical book, but a popular science
book is also interesting. I would subimit an article. Glad to hear that
Sagan says we'll go. I too have various complaints about Sagan.
∂17-Nov-80 0233 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) you may have seen this before, but...
Date: 17 NOV 1980 0531-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: you may have seen this before, but...
To: MINSKY at MIT-MC, JMC at MIT-MC, FORWARD at MIT-MC, RAH at MIT-MC
To: POURNELLE at MIT-MC, llw at SU-AI
I think I do not understand the r-mail "reply" mode since I
NEVER put in such ridiculous addresses as those given belonw.
But what the hell.
COMSAT@MIT-MC 11/17/80 05:19:39 Re: Msg of Monday, 17 November 1980 05:19-EST
A copy of your message is being returned, because:
"MINSKY AT MIT-ML" at MIT-MC is an unknown recipient.
Message not sent.
"LLW AT SU-AI" at MIT-MC is an unknown recipient.
Message not sent.
"JMC AT SU-AI" at MIT-MC is an unknown recipient.
Message not sent.
"FORWARD AT USC-ISI" at MIT-MC is an unknown recipient.
Message not sent.
Failed message follows:
-------
Date: 17 NOV 1980 0519-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Interesting, although I suspect that a milligram machine
capable of reproducing itself and eventually coming home (or
getting a message home) may be more difficult to reduce to
engineering practice than is implied in the original message.
FYI, MOTE explicitly talks about straight laser
propulsion, but you can infer from other sutff that the laser
ablative technique was known and used. The Moties, for obvious
reasons, had no real confidence that the laser systems would
survive long enough to allow them to use them for SLOWING DOWN
at the other end of the journey; indeed, they werew fairly
certain that the big lasers would not exist by the time the
ships got to Murcheson.
∂17-Nov-80 0253 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) technical books
Date: 17 NOV 1980 0553-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: technical books
To: JMC at SU-AI
I wouldn't know what the sales potential of a really technical
book on interstallar travel would be. It's a cinch I wouldn't
have much to contribute to it. BIS (British Interplanetary)
remains very interested, of course, as does AAS; and Forward has
a Hughes internal publication and bibliography.
As to a popular book (which could get quite technical so long as
the technical material was organized into appendices and tabs to
go with more general-level material) the problem would be to
find the sources of contributions; the people I know who could
probably get a contract to edit the book (such as myself) would
not know -- or not necessarily know-0- the contributors. For
example, I could get you, forward, minsky, and bussard, dyson,
and moravec; but at that point I think I have exhausted the
sources I know of.
It'{s certainly possible, but I am not sure it's worth it, since
it uses a scarce resource (our time) to produce a book that
might not have a hell of a lot of effect. Or have I looked at
it the wrong way? Maybe it would have more effect than I know.
It's a cinch it won't make MUCH money although it would probably
make a few hundred for each of us.
∂17-Nov-80 0258 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Date: 17 NOV 1980 0558-EST
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
To: JMC at SU-AI
Indeed that wouldn't be good either (bureaucracy to decide what can be said
and delaying election due to secret appeal). Good thing this mailing list
is large so we have lots of good differing ideas.
∂17-Nov-80 0954 FORWARD at USC-ECL Interstellar Beamed Power, Inc. Prospectus
Date: 17 NOV 1980 0953-PST
From: FORWARD at USC-ECL
Subject: Interstellar Beamed Power, Inc. Prospectus
To: LLW at SU-AI, RAH at SU-AI, JMC at SU-AI, MINSKY at MIT-ML,
To: POURNE at MIT-MC
cc: FORWARD
Since I recently published a paper on a laser pushed sail
with deceleration capability at the far end (AIAA paper 80-0823,
6 May 1980) (I am using the concept in my next novel), I took a
hard look at the problems of pushing attoradian beams across
interstellar distances and ran into a subtle point in laser power
transmission. I used to think like Lowell, that all you had to
have was a wide-spread array of lasers and with proper phasing
they would form a beam appropriate to their diameter to
wavelength ratio, where the diameter was that of the array, not
the individual mirrors. It is true that such an array will form
a spot of small size with very low sidelobes, but careful
consideration will also show that only a/A'th of the total power
is in that spot, where a is the total area of the mirrors, and A
is the area of the array. The rest (nearly all) of the power is
in those sidelobes. To RECEIVE photons with high resolution at a
distance a Mills cross or other partially filled array will work
fine, but to TRANSMIT power requires a filled array. That is why
in my paper I propose a large Fresnel zone plate consisting of a
spider-web of fibers with alternate layers of quarter-wave
plastic sheet and nothing. A 1000 kilometer lens would weigh
only 186,000 Tons and could focus to 100 kilometers at Proxima.
Of course, Lowell, if you have all the laser power you want,
then an unfilled array will focus to 10 centimeters and it might
be preferable to operate an array wastefully (it's all just
redirected sunlight anyway) than clutter up interplanetary
commerce with a 1 AU sized lens.
The laser sail scheme I proposed is a version of a
suggestion by John McCarthy that for long journeys it wins to
have an accompanying spacecraft that does not decelerate but
supplies energy to a smaller decelerating spacecraft by laser.
My scheme uses a 300 kilometer "throwaway" sail to capture the
laser light beam from earth and redirect it back at a 100
kilometer payload sail trailing behind. The laser light hits the
big sail near Proxima, accelerating it past, while the reflected
light hits the payload sail from the other side, slowing the
smaller sail to stop at Proxima.
I also agree with John that perhaps this might be a good
time to have a collection of interstellar flight papers to
counteract the SETI propaganda that interstellar flight is
impossible. Most of their "impossibility" proofs are based on
two assumptions that practically force the "impossibility"
conclusion. One is that the rocket must carry its own reaction
mass and energy source (they usually "give" the assumption that
the rocket uses antimatter fuel, but even that won't overcome the
next assumption.) The second is that the trip is at a constant
one gee acceleration. This alone kills any rocket concept that
travels more than 4 or 5 light years, for at one gee you are up
to 0.707 the speed of light in one year, and from then on all the
fuel only goes into making mass, NOT making you go any faster.
At half-way, you then turn around and expend more fuel just
taking mass back out of the payload. This gets exponentially
more difficult as the trip distance increases. If however, you
turn off the engines after one or two years at acceleration, then
coast, you only lose a few percent in trip time at a gain of
orders of magnitude in fuel.
There is a journal that specializes in papers on
interstellar flight. It is the Interstellar Studies section
(4 or 5 issues per year) of the Journal of the British
Interplanetary Society, of which I am associate editor. I also
have a bibliography of interstellar travel and communication
containing 2699 entries (June 1980 issue of JBIS) that I will
send to those who are interested as soon as I get my reprints.
Perhaps a book would be in order, however. Jerry Pournelle would
be the best editor since his name alone will sell 100,000 copies.
He is pretty busy with his own projects, however. How about it
Jerry?
===> Bob Forward
-------
∂17-Nov-80 1142 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Robert Landau(n) called re a paper from a Stanford U. conference in March.
Can he publish it? Is a new paper coming? Please call 202 333 4800
∂17-Nov-80 1300 JMC*
Bill Sanders about Dialnet
∂17-Nov-80 1600 Feigenbaum@SUMEX-AIM David Marr died
Date: 17 Nov 1980 1551-PST
From: Feigenbaum@SUMEX-AIM
Subject: David Marr died
To: jmc@SAIL, tob@SAIL, tw@SAIL
Mail from SU-SCORE rcvd at 17-Nov-80 1310-PST
Mail-from: ARPANET site MIT-AI rcvd at 17-Nov-80 1219-PST
Date: 17 NOV 1980 1058-EST
From: KRD at MIT-AI (Randall Davis)
To: csd.feigenbaum at SU-SCORE, csd.lenat at SU-SCORE
To: csd.buchanan at SU-SCORE
David Marr succumbed to a brain hemmorage last nite.
-------
∂17-Nov-80 1809 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
Date: 17 NOV 1980 2059-EST
From: MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
To: jmc at SU-AI
Hi. Am planning to have dinner with Feynman (and Fredkin) Wed. Evening.
Interested in joining?
That's interesting. Let me try re-arrange my scheduled dinner with
Jerry Pournelle. Presently I'm scheduled to leave at 9pm and was
going to keep the Pournelle dinner early, e.g. at 6. Is this
feasible, or should I try to re-arrange my travel.
∂17-Nov-80 1830 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky) Interstallar Master Traders
Date: 17 NOV 1980 2124-EST
From: MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
Subject: Interstallar Master Traders
To: llw at SU-AI, rah at SU-AI, jmc at SU-AI, pourne at MIT-MC
CC: MINSKY at MIT-ML
Well folks, I'm in favor of intelligent exploration. I note that
the proofs of starship impossibility resemble the Apollo vs.
scientific exploration of the solar system; that is, our
best physicists have feelings against anyone really being there.
Perhaps the idea of the universe being explored by machine
descendants of us (perhaps not bothering to report
back to base, ever) will serve to unify both sides -- namely by them all
hating us together. Will it only make them angrier if we
reassure them that the milligram AI machines are too far off to
invest in now?
IN any case, the propulsion arguments are coming along fine.
I regret that they do not seem to swallow the bait I offered --
specifically that the starseed be micro. For all the schemes proposed
so far are ones you guys thought of already; they are too good, in that
they propel multi-gram loads, at least. That is, if they
require targets large enough to catch the poor laser beam.
Still, if we are able to transport a whole kilogram, this will
bring the mission years closer to the present. Or will it?
The AI part might take longer than it takes for us to
learn how to make computers that use just a few atoms/bit.
∂17-Nov-80 1900 JMC*
No rows or potential rows in November.
∂17-Nov-80 2000 JMC*
call zohar
∂17-Nov-80 2138 RPG Questionairre
I made up part of the questionairre (that is, I suggested some
questions) and the point I tried to make was to see if there were
features of systems that people would want to have that might
impact the choice of machine. I think it's a mistake to ask how much
disk space someone might use because they will say a very large amount.
Asking about line editors obviously means in a non-trivial way. With
a line editor one usually needs an extended keyboard to communicate with
that line editor, while if you ask if they want a fancy keyboard they
will say ``no, not compatible''.
Most of the questions I posed were of the form that the answers would
maximally hint against personal machines, which I take to be a mistake
at this time, and nearly at every time.
I talked to Len Bosack (new topic) about the 720 and he seemed to feel
that we could microcode it satisfactorily for LISP, but we would need
to study the economics of it as well as the software committments.
SPICE approached DEC but got no response, though factions within DEC liked the
idea. I'm not sure that a personal LISP machine maximally helps Stanford
at this point.
-rpg-
∂18-Nov-80 0932 Buchanan@SUMEX-AIM Re: Cheeseman
Date: 18 Nov 1980 0925-PST
From: Buchanan@SUMEX-AIM
Subject: Re: Cheeseman
To: JMC@SU-AI, DBL@SU-AI, feigenbaum@SU-SCORE
In response to the message sent 17 Nov 1980 1814-PST from JMC at SU-AI
I don't know him, sorry.
bgb
-------
∂18-Nov-80 0946 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
Date: 18 NOV 1980 1241-EST
From: MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
To: jmc at SU-AI
Well, any plan you want wrt pournelle.
∂18-Nov-80 1011 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) Final for CS206
Date: 18 Nov 1980 1010-PST
From: CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai)
Subject: Final for CS206
To: JMC at SU-AI
Will there be a final for CS206?
Will you need a special room?
Carolyn
-------
There will be a final, but I won't need a special room.
∂18-Nov-80 1046 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE NSF equipment proposal
Date: 18 Nov 1980 1044-PST
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Subject: NSF equipment proposal
To: jmc at SU-AI
I am in the process of putting together a proposal for a VAX from NSF,
and TOB is one of the key figures, as he is claiming he needs the
VAX for his work. Since he is not yet an adjunct professor (and won't
be unless you get the papers done) we need to include you as an investigator
on the proposal. I have asked fran for a copy of your vita, OK? There is
no need for you to have any other involvement.
-------
∂18-Nov-80 1053 Shostak at SRI-F2 (Robert Shostak) About Woody Bledsoe
Date: 18 Nov 1980 1053-PST
From: Shostak at SRI-F2 (Robert Shostak)
Subject: About Woody Bledsoe
To: jmc at SU-AI
cc: boyer
John-
Bob Boyer mentioned to me that you are gathering information
regarding Prof. Bledsoe's work in connection with a recommendation
for him. I have worked with him fairly closely over the last few
years (rather intensively, just recently) and would be happy to
help out.
As you know, Woody's primary academic interest for the last
decade has been the development of first-order theorem-provers
specifically oriented toward theorems in mathematics. He, often
in collaboration with his students, has implemented several
such (targeted for non-standard analysis as well as standard
real analysis) over the last few years. Recently, he has been
particularly concerned with first-order theorems heavily
involving inequalities (such as the mean-value theorem and
theorems of that genre.) The theorem-provers he has devised
have been truly impressive- able to prove formulas completely
automatically that would be found challenging to freshman
calculus students. His work in this area might be described as
defining the state of the art.
More important than his current research, perhaps, is his
contribution to the field of a certain philosophy- a certain
style of developing theorem-provers that has had profound
influence on the work of others (Boyer and Moore, I think they
will agree, are a prime example.) This philosophy is guided
by intense empiricism in conjunction with the principle that
one should attempt to emulate human reasoning as much as possible.
It is a philosophy that defies the problems of undecidability
and computational complexity with the simple observation that
humans do so quite successfully all the time.
On a personal note, I'd just like to add that Woody
Bledsoe is one of the kindest, self-less, and genuine persons
I have ever known. He is one of those few professors who
command not just the respect and admiration of his students and
colleagues, but their love as well.
If I can be of further help, particularly in regard to
accumulating lists of papers and such things, please let me
know.
Rob
-------
Many thanks for the note on Woody Bledsoe. It's just what I needed.
∂18-Nov-80 1131 CSD.LENAT at SU-SCORE Re: Cheeseman
Date: 18 Nov 1980 1129-PST
From: CSD.LENAT at SU-SCORE
Subject: Re: Cheeseman
To: Buchanan at SUMEX-AIM, JMC at SU-AI, DBL at SU-AI, feigenbaum at SU-SCORE
In-Reply-To: Your message of 18-Nov-80 0925-PST
I believe he was at Stanfordover a year ago, and the consensus was
that he was bright, educable, but not yet informed about AI beyond
1970. In short, he was much like a promising PhD student, and we
decided regretfully not to support him as a research associate
while he came up to speed. Given the "modern" topics he's working
on now, he may have taken steps to bring himself up to date, at
least to the frontier of some parts of AI. John will have to
evaluate his current state of knowledge, to make the decision.
I think that Mike Genesereth was here then, and would remember
Peter, so I am forwarding him a copy of the querying message.
Doug
-------
∂18-Nov-80 2007 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
Date: 18 NOV 1980 2302-EST
From: MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
To: jmc at SU-AI
Say John. - I forgot how to work NS. Could you get it
to send the Gloria story to me as mail? (The AP story is
better than the form it appeard in in the Globe, actually,
so she'd like to show it to the local politicians.)
∂19-Nov-80 1329 ME CE FOO.>
∂20-Oct-80 0155 JMC ce <filename>.>
To: BUG-e
Mostly references to <filename>.> refer to the file with the largest
numerical extension, but if there are no files <filename>.<ext>, then
ce <filename>.> creates one with extension >, but a subsequent attempt
to delete it gets the reply
">" illegal where used. I had expected that
ce <filename>.> would create <filename>.1 under these circumstances.
ME - OK, CE FOO.> will create FOO.1 in this case.
∂19-Nov-80 1530 DBL survey
Your comments are on the mark, and I wish I'd had them in time
to affect the questionaire. It was no doubt heavily skewed
toward my personal expectations; for instance, I could use
a thousandfold increase in available disk storage, so didn't
think it was useful to ask about that. I am not personally
in favor of the move to personal machines, and neither are
most of the respondents; like automobiles they are snazzy
and occasionally useful vehicles, but I wouldn't care to live
in one.
Doug
∂19-Nov-80 1549 FWH PV+A Seminar
To: "@SEM.DIS[SEM,VER]" at SU-AI
PROGRAM VERIFICATION AND ANALYSIS SEMINAR
PLACE: ERL 237
TIME: 2:30 p.m., Tuesday, November 25
SPEAKER: Keith Clark, Imperial College, London, and
Syracuse University, N.Y.
TITLE: IC-PROLOG
ABSTRACT:
An IC-PROLOG (Imperial College Prolog) program is made up of
two independent components:
(1) a logic component L that is a set of sentences of first order
predicate logic,
(2) a control component C specified by text order and annotations
embedded in L.
A computation of the program is an inference from L controlled
by C. This L+C approach to program development provides us with a
powerful programming notation. We shall see that IC-PROLOG can be used
to set up and query a small relational data base, to write non-deterministic
symbol manipulating programs, to investigate data flow coroutining/lazy
evaluation modes of computation and to program with communicating pseudo
parallel processes. For each style of program the computation is still
an inference from a set of sentences that DESCRIBE the relations and
functions that we want to compute.
∂20-Nov-80 0229 POURNE@MIT-MC Upcoming article and stuff on NASA
From: POURNE@MIT-MC
Date: 11/20/80 05:28:56
Subject: Upcoming article and stuff on NASA
POURNE@MIT-MC 11/20/80 05:28:56 Re: Upcoming article and stuff on NASA
To: MINSKY at MIT-MC, JMC at MIT-MC, POURNELLE at MIT-MC
MC:pourne;odear > has three things all run together in it.
First is a letter to Duke Kane who reports to Schriever. Gen Benny
Schriever is Reagan space advisor.
Second is paper that will definitely go to Schriever. It will be
published also.
Third is appendix to that paper. Appendix will NOT be published in
present form.
OK?
Jep
∂20-Nov-80 0943 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Ruby of CIT, 7-4376, wishes to know if you can come to the luncheon on
November 24, 12 - 2p.m.
∂20-Nov-80 0944 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Jane Daniels of U. of Texas in Austin phoned to say they need a letter on
Bledsoe as soon as possible. 512 47l 336l
∂20-Nov-80 0946 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Ruth Block of the New York Times Magazine, 212 556 7432, would like you to
call her.
∂20-Nov-80 1315 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Mike Schwartz of the Phildelphia Inquirer called. Wishes to speak to you
about robots relating to Quesar Industries. Could you call him collect.
9 O - then operator gets number for you
: 215 928 1808
∂20-Nov-80 1319 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Jane Marcus called you. 7-4413
∂20-Nov-80 1649 FFL insurance on Mazda
To: JMC, FFL
Pls. call Viviant State Farm Ins. 408 225 2312
∂20-Nov-80 1707 Boyer at SRI-F2 (Bob Boyer) Proofs
Date: 20 Nov 1980 1706-PST
From: Boyer at SRI-F2 (Bob Boyer)
Subject: Proofs
To: JMC at SU-AI, CLT at SU-AI
Here are the proofs and definitions we did this afternoon.
[moved to proofs[f80,jmc]
∂20-Nov-80 1716 Imsss@SUMEX-AIM
Date: 20 Nov 1980 1716-PST
From: Imsss@SUMEX-AIM
To: JMC@SAIL
Professor McCarthy,
I got your message this afternoon. The meeting on Monday is to
bring together faculty who might be interested in conducting research
on the DEC-20 project currently proposed by the Text Network Program.
Although a number of people who will be present already know a great
deal about the DEC machine, others represent less technical fields
such as communication and education. Ralph Gorin will be there to
answer questions about the TOPS-20 operating system. Ed Shaw will
speak about the need for a research component to complement the
service orientation of the project.
It will be a fairly informal get together with an interesting
group of people. We hope you will be able to join us.
Jane Marcus
-------
∂21-Nov-80 0155 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 21 NOV 1980 0455-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: MINSKY at MIT-MC, POURNELLE at MIT-MC, JMC at SU-AI
Paper received at the ranch and well thought of. "Innovative
management proposal" (ie Pajaro Dunes group on regular basis)
definitely recommended. We'll see if anythign comes of all that.
Best,
JEP
∂22-Nov-80 0147 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) odear
Date: 22 NOV 1980 0447-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: odear
To: JMC at SU-AI
Thanks. I am told that it went over well with the chairman of the space
advisory committee, and the institutionalization of Pajaro zDunes group
was thought of as a good "imaginative management innovation" or something
of the sort.
JEP
∂22-Nov-80 1154 FORWARD at USC-ECL Joules per bit
Date: 22 NOV 1980 1154-PST
From: FORWARD at USC-ECL
Subject: Joules per bit
To: HANS.MORAVEC at CMU-10A, MINSKY at MIT-MC, LLW at SAIL,
To: RAH at SAIL, JMC at SAIL
For the last few months I have been trying to find
the minimum amount of energy needed to transfer a bit
of information. I have researched the problem and the closest
I could come was Shannon's original work in 1948 on channel
capacity, but there was nothing on energy efficiency. I have been
able to derive the answer from one of Shannon's theorems.
The energy efficiency of information transfer is:
E = kT ln 2
Where k = 1.38x10↑-23 is Boltzmann's constant, ln is the log
to the base e, and T is the effective noise temperature of the
system.
If the noise is that of the 2.7 degree background radiation,
then E = 2.6x10↑-23 Joules/bit. That means that the entire
contents of the Library of Congress could be transmitted by a
few microjoules.
Surely such a simple answer has been derived before. I would
appreciate pointers to such a derivation.
Bob Forward (FORWARD@USC-ECL, FORWRD@MIT-MC)
-------
It seems to me that the work done on energy required for computation
is relevant to your question. I haven't really followed it, but I
think the expert is Rolf Landauer at IBM Research Lab, Yorktown Heights
who has published papers over a many year period. However, the results
of this work have been modified by results of Ed Fredkin (EF@AI) and
others on "conservative logic". The basic idea of conservative logic
is that if no information is lost, then the entropy need not be
increased at all. Maybe you know all this already.
∂22-Nov-80 1406 John A. Pershing Jr. <JPERSHING at BBNA> This looks too good to be true, but...
Date: Saturday, 22 November 1980 17:01-EST
From: John A. Pershing Jr. <JPERSHING at BBNA>
To: ENERGY at MIT-MC
Subject: This looks too good to be true, but...
If it involves messing around with free Bromine, then it IS too good to
be true...
(Even HBr, when mixed with water, makes one hell of an acid)
-jp
∂22-Nov-80 1516 Nilsson at SRI-KL Permission letters
Date: 22 Nov 1980 1517-PST
From: Nilsson at SRI-KL
Subject: Permission letters
To: jmc at SU-AI
cc: Nilsson
John, While you are deciding about how to prepare and publish you
AI and Phil. volume, you might as well get started on getting permission
to reprint the articles. I'm sending along with this msg a suggested
form letter to be signed and sent by you to the various copyright holders
of your articles. We probably don't need to be formal with IJCAI although
you might send a letter to Don Walker--maybe he'll think of someone
who should sign it. I note that your "First Order Theories ..." paper
was published both in MI9 and in Michie's Expert Systems volume. I
presume MI9 is the copyright holder. Perhaps your secy can look up the
precise addresses of the various publishers and send the letters to these
address with some sort of legend on the envelope like "Attention:
rights department."
Your secy can use the letter adding relevant info to it for each particular
case. I'm also sending a list of your articles, copyright holders, dates
of copyright, etc. for this purpose. I'll eventually need a copy of
all the signed permission letters.
As a matter of courtesy you might want also to write a letter to the
editors of the volumes in which your articles appeared requesting their
permission to republish. I don't think we legally need their permission,
though.
Let me know if you have any questions. How are you coming along in
deciding how to publish? I'm ready to get started as soon as you
say so. --Nils
Here's the form letter:
PERMISSION TO INCLUDE INDIVIDUAL WORK IN AN EDITED VOLUME OF
COLLECTED WORKS
(Name of Copyright Holder) Dated:
(Address)
Gentlemen:
I propose to edit and cause to be published a volume of my collected
works on the subject of Artificial Intelligence and Philosophy,
tentatively to be entitled ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND PHILOSOPHY.
The volume will be published by Tioga Publishing Company and will
contain approximately seven of my individual works. I should like to
include my paper entitled (title of paper), herein called the Work,
which appeared in (name of volume or journal) published by (name of
publisher). It is understood that your permission, if granted, will
be on the following terms:
1. Your permission will be limited to the inclusion of the Work in
the above-described edited volume, and if the edited volume goes out
of print, the right herein granted will automatically revert to you,
and this permission will be of no further force and effect.
2. I will have only the right to the Work expressly herein granted
to me, and all rights therein will be reserved to you. I will have
no right to reprint the work independently, or to authorize others to
do so, or to permit others to quote therefrom.
3. The edited volume will carry the following legend either on the
copyright page or as a footnote on the first page on which the
Work appears therein:
From (name of volume or journal)
published by (name of publisher), copyright
19-- by (name of copyright holder). All
rights reserved. Reprinted by permission.
4. This permission will be exclusive for the purposes of inclusion in
collective works or compilations, but will be non-exclusive otherwise.
5. You warrant that the Work does not infringe upon any copyright,
common law right, proprietary right or any other right whatsoever; that
it does not contain any matter that is libelous or otherwise contrary
to law; and that you have the full right and authority to make this
grant.
6. I may assign my rights hereunder to the publisher of the edited
volume.
7. This letter agreement shall be governed by the laws of the
State of California applicable to contracts entered into and to
be performed in that State.
If the foregoing is acceptable to you, please so indicate below. This
letter will then constitute the permission I seek.
Very truly yours,
John McCarthy
Agreed to and Accepted:
Dated:
------------------------------------
Name of Copyright Holder
Here are the copyright holders:
1. Programs with Common Sense
SEMANTIC INFORMATION PROCESSING, M. Minsky (editor), copyright 1968
The MIT Press
Cambridge, Mass.
2. Some Philosophical Problems from the Standpoint of Artificial Intelligence
MACHINE INTELLIGENCE 4, B. Meltzer and D. Michie (editors), copyright 1969
Edinburgh University Press
Edinburgh, Scotland
3. Epistemological Problems of Artificial Intelligence
PROCEEDINGS IJCAI-77, copyright 1977
International Joint Conferences on Artificial Intelligence
c/o Dr. Donald Walker
SRI International
Menlo Park, CA 94025
4. Ascribing Mental Qualities to Machines
PHILOSOPHICAL PERSPECTIVES IN ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, M. Ringle (editor),
copyright 1979
Harvester Press
5. First Order Theories of Individual Concepts and Propositions
MACHINE INTELLIGENCE 9, D. Michie (editor), copyright 1979
Ellis Horwood, Ltd.
London, England
6. Circumscription--A Form of Non-Monotonic Reasoning
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, copyright 1980
North-Holland Publishing Company
Amsterdam
-------
∂22-Nov-80 2009 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
Date: 22 NOV 1980 2304-EST
From: MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
To: MINSKY at MIT-ML, forward at USC-ECL
CC: llw at SU-AI, jmc at SU-AI, rah at SU-AI, moravec at CMU-10A
There is some literature, and I could get exact references with some
effort. Hans Bremermann (Berkeley) had a paper some years ago
in which he discusses the kT idea. Also, he has a compelling though
illogical argument for another bound as follows.
To store information, one must tie up some mass M for a time t
(that is, to store it for time t). If we convert the mass to energy
and multiply by the time we get m*c*c*t which has the dimensions of
action. Therefore, one should divide it by Planck's constant to
get a dimensionless number -- which Bremermann suggests is the
maximum amount of computation that can be done by that mass in that time.
Whatever that means, I am sure he did not not write anything about
the best T in kT being the cosmic background temperature.
In any case, Bremermann does not discuss this in conection with
transmission; rather, he treats it as the amount of power to run
a computer, or reading a recording system.
One other remark: there is some literature on the subject of
whether information processing is reversible or not. A paper
by Landauer of IBM has some discussion of this, but I don't remember enough
details. Only, I recall that I had some question about the
matter of this sort: unless you prove a strong form of irreversibility
in the data-matching process, you have to consider a case in which
the Library of Congress is transmitted carefully to another
Galaxy, and then sent back again! Some arguments of Ed Fredkin
of MIT suggest that this might be done in a reversible fashion so that
you would end up expending only a single kTln 2 instead of
having to pay for the whole message! I leave you with that peculiar thought,
noting only that I don't understand the issue very well, and that
Fredkin was not quite able to convince Feynman of its physical
realizability. On the other hand, Feynman did conclude that Fredkin's
arguments about computational reversibility were non-trivial and
deserve further exploration before absolute conviction that one
has to pay the thermodynamic costs of the information that is not actually
used! That is, we need to examine more carefully what is "used";
clearly, if one makes a logarithmic sort to find a certain word in
a dictionary, one need not disturb (that is, observe) most of the words,
so little irreversible damage need be done.
I guess that if you read the whole library you must pay for it all --
but it would be interesting if we could set up a galactic round robin in which
no energy is consumed in transmitting it everywhere, except when
it is consumed. (I don't mean to attribute this idea to Feynman, by the way.)
After all, the argument is: you have to spend nkT to record the library
in the first place. But there is no reason you can't do it in a
lossless circulating delay line that circumscribes the universe
in a nearly spacefilling curve. Then, your single fractinal microjoule
informs the entire universe. Only, anyone who looks at a bit is
obligated to replace it carefully, and to pay on the spot for the
electricity to do so.
-- marvin
∂23-Nov-80 1328 JK dm upgrade
To: ME
CC: JMC, ROY
I will bring my DM to Product Associates as soon as the second
terminal is installed in my office: Right now I am in the
middle of debugging a large formal reasoning system for JMC
and need fairly good access to the system. Since ROY has
promised to install the terminal in the very near futre I
don't expect this to cause much delay.
I will send you a message immediately after I delivered the DM to
Product Associates. If you have the directions somewhere around
I would appreciate getting them again: It seems that I have
deleted that message.
∂23-Nov-80 1512 Marimont at SRI-KL Humble request for an academic favor
Date: 23 Nov 1980 1512-PST
From: Marimont at SRI-KL
Subject: Humble request for an academic favor
To: jmc at SU-AI
cc: Marimont
I am going to ask you for a favor, but let me first assure you
that I recall the deal we struck last spring when you agreed to be my
academic advisor: that very little active involvement on your part
would be required. So let me apologize in advance for the presumption
of this request.
I intend to take the EE qualifying exam this January, so about a week
ago I met with Larry Manning, the EE professor who administers the exam,
to get a few tips on how best to prepare myself. After describing the
format of the exam, which as you probably already know, is for each
student ten separate 12-minute oral exams with one professor at a time,
he discussed the procedure used to convert the ten separate scores each
student receives from his ten person examining committee into a pass or
fail of the exam as a whole. After the scores of all students examined
by each professor are normalized to correct for variations in mean
and variance of scores across professors, the ten scores of each student
are combined in a composite score which i used to rank all students. At
a meeting held to determine the final results of the exam, all the EE
professors participating in the examination process use the ranking of
student performance on the exam and any additional knowledge of a student
which they may possess to decide who shall pass. The method is basically
triage based on the composite scores: those students scoring the
highest pass no matter what any professor thinks of them, those
scoring the lowerst fail, and the remainder are discussed individ-
ually. As the name of each student in this middle group comes up, pro-
fessors who are optimistic about the student's chances of success in the
PhD program, and most importantly, those willing to support the
student with a research assistantship and/or as research supervisor, are
asked to identify themselves. As I understand the process, students
who can be verified as already having research supervisors and/or prob-
able research assistantships pass, and those without do not.
This is where you come in (not to put too fine a point on it). The
person who knows best of my chance for success in a PhD program and who is
is most likely to offer me a research assistantship is Tom Binford, who
has unfortunately no official ties to the EE department and thus cannot
attend the meeting at which the results of the exam are determined without
bending a few rules. Without anyone to speak up for me at the meting,
I'll have to score in the top group to pass, and all false modesty aside,
I think I am far more likely to land in the middle group.
You can guess what comes next. If I could persuade you to attend this
meeting and speak up for me if necessary, I would estimate that the prob-
ability of my passing the exam is more than twice what it would be other-
wise. I talked this over with Tom, and he suggested that I approach
you directly and offered to speak to you on my behalf if it would help
convince you.
Again, please pardon the presumption of this request. It's awkward to
ask a favor of someone for whom I can do so little in return. But
the fact that this exam seems the most difficult of the obstacles between
me and a PhD helps me overcome my awkwardness.
The latest information I have is that the meeting will take place on
Friday 23 January. I'll be glad to check with the EE department on the
location and exact time if you like.
I should warn you that there is a nonzero probability that I will land
in the lowest scoring group, in which case your attending the meeting
will not be able to help me. For a variety of reasons ( my in-
experience with oral exams; the unusually low number of examiners this
year in computer systems, my strongest area; the unusually high number
of students taking the exam this year, with no corresponding increase
in the number permitted to pass; and the lack of breadth in my EE back-
ground), I face this exam with less than total confidence. On the
bright side, however, I am in a study group with a few other students,
I'm fairly confident of my knowledge in the computer systems area,
and with your help, all I will have to do to pass is to stay out of the
lowest scoring group. So overall I think my chances are fairly good.
Please let me know if there is any information with which I can provide
you which will help you decide wheterh to attend the meeting.
I read my mail several times a week, and I can be reached by phone at
854-1365 most evenings or 326-6200 x2783 Friday afternoons.
If you prefer not to attend the meeting, there are several options which
would still help me (although somewhat less than your attendence at
the meeting) and which would require less effort on your part. These
include conveying your interest in me to a professor who will be attend-
ing the meeting and/or writing a note to Larry Manning expressing this
interest.
Thanks for taking the time to read this longwinded message, and I look
forward to hearing from you soon.
Dave
-------
I haven't attended the meeting before, but I will discuss it with Tom
and then maybe with Manning to determine whether he considers it
appropriate. Perhaps there will be more information about where you
stand before a decision finally has to be made. I will surely need
to be reminded, but I have put the date in my calendar.
∂23-Nov-80 2034 LLW Only Attoergs Per Bit!
To: forward at USC-ECL
CC: LLW at SU-AI, RAH at SU-AI, JMC at SU-AI,
minsky at MIT-AI, hans.moravec at CMU-10A
∂22-Nov-80 1153 FORWARD at USC-ECL Joules per bit
Date: 22 NOV 1980 1153-PST
From: FORWARD at USC-ECL
Subject: Joules per bit
To: HANS.MORAVEC at CMU-10A, MINSKY at MIT-MC, LLW at SAIL,
To: RAH at SAIL, JMC at SAIL
[Dear Bob:
You're correct on both counts--the answer's right, and it was derived in
prehistoric times (e.g., it was quoted without attribution when I was in
school). The last time I saw an attribution to it was in Fubini's 1967
IEEE Spectrum article on computing horizons.
That so much information involves so little energy has been an inspiration
to us all; Hans wrote a paean to oodles of computing power a few years ago
which pivoted prettily on anticipated VLSI gains and this little gem of a
fact--he'll probably drop a copy onto you with very little provocation.
Lowell]
∂23-Nov-80 2044 LLW The Free University's Power Bill
To: minsky at MIT-AI
CC: LLW at SU-AI, forward at USC-ECL, RAH at SU-AI, JMC at SU-AI,
moravec at CMU-10A
[While I'm thoroughly in favor of telling the entire universe about
everything, I regret to point out that, due to special relativistic
limitations on information propagation rates, etc., you will require
either aleph-2 quantities of energy to *initiate* the process, or aleph-1
quantities of energy, if you're willing to wait an average of half a
universe lifetime for the information to come through your point (of
aleph-0 such points) of space. It's an expensive business! Lowell]
∂23-Nov-80 2232 POURNE@MIT-MC curiouser..
From: POURNE@MIT-MC
Date: 11/24/80 01:31:16
Subject: curiouser..
POURNE@MIT-MC 11/24/80 01:31:16 Re: curiouser..
To: JMC at MIT-MC
A note in the SPACE mailing list wonders what the Russians want with
Venus.
Myself, I suspect they're reluctant to quit while they're winning; they
don't have all that good a technology and Venus they actually
got to, so..
But I wondered if you had any ideas.
I am told that ODEAR was very well received at a very high level.
JEP
If the Russians plug away at making landers that can survive on Venus for
longer and longer times, they will do something substantial that we can't
do with merely by having a more sophisticated generalized instrumental
technology. Their moon rover was a similar attempt to specialize, but
they didn't keep it up. Assuming we can't think of any bad reason why
they might be doing it, probably we should continue to co-operate by
supplying radar maps and maybe in other ways. After all survival at 900
degrees Celsius is a very specialized and difficult problem, and there are
enough things to do in space, so we needn't do it too unless we can
imagine a military payoff. I have thought a bit and can't imagine any,
which doesn't prove that no-one else can. If anyone has been having
gloomy thoughts on the subject, Lowell Wood is likely to know about it.
Jerry, you're a very good writer, and I think you should consider
preparing an outline and draft of one or two Presidential speeches about
space, if you think a proposal to do so would be regarded favorably or
even with interest. No doubt the official speech writers would redo it,
but since they don't know much about space, the content and message might
well stick. Some good words about "the spirit of exploration" that would
get the justification of a space program out of the science or immediate
payoff category would be the most important contribution. No doubt it
wouldn't come up very quickly on the Presidential agenda, but if something
were ready, it might be just what was wanted on a suitable occasion.
On a lighter side, your question reminded me of a "secret project" I used
to tell people about shortly after Lincoln Laboratory first detected a
radar return from Venus in the late 50s. After people agreed to keep it
confidential, they would be informed of the plan to have three large
radars spaced equally around the equator and a satellite communication
link to a central computer near Washington with a direct link to the White
House. The radars would keep a continuous watch on Venus, and if it ever
disappeared, the President would be instantly informed.
Dearer to my heart than a Presidential space speech would be a good
speech on energy, including a non-pussyfooting attitude to nuclear
energy, and on technology generally. I think that Reagan
could score a coup by a speech on the wonders to come, because public
opinion, including much intellectual public opinion, is ready to flip
from its negative attitudes. I'll soon send you a draft of a statement
that Stanford SE2 is preparing for a signature campaign among California
scientists and engineers. I would like your comments on it for its
own purpose as well as eventual signature and help getting others,
and it contains some ideas that need to be pushed nationally also.
∂23-Nov-80 2309 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 24 NOV 1980 0208-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: JMC at SU-AI
For Ghu's sake don't tell anyone about the SECRET project, especially
on anything as public as this net!!
Someone is sure to build it...
As to standby speeches, I'll give it some thought; my inclination
at the moment is to continue publishing.
Don't forget to do what you can to get cards and letters sent in
in spring in support of the odear thing; star trek can't do it all..
∂24-Nov-80 0000 JMC*
Weening to Michie
∂24-Nov-80 0153 RWG at MIT-MC (Bill Gosper)
Date: 24 NOV 1980 0449-EST
From: RWG at MIT-MC (Bill Gosper)
To: ENERGY at MIT-MC
My landlord's 9th grader will be shown 3 films on nuclear energy this term:
one "neutral", one "pro", one "anti". Here are some questions (and the
"right" answers) from the post-"neutral" classroom quiz.
2. What U. S. President started the U. S. on the road to Nuclear power
generation? Why?
a: Eisenhower, to improve nuclear bomb acceptability.
13. What is proposed to do with nuclear waste in the future?
a: Nothing much (except salt mines, etc.)
14. What is the most dangerous waste-product produced?
a: Plutonium.
18. What fuel does the breeder reactor produce?
a: Plutonium.
Comments:
2. Can anyone supply some hard data on this? It sounds incredible. Also,
EBR-1, the world's first reactor to supply useful amounts of electricity (and
the world's first breeder) operated before Eisenhower took office.
13. No reprocessing?
14. Waste-product? At > $3000/oz? (BTW, was that really plutonium they
dumped off the Farallons?)
I assume your landlord is RWW, and I think a protest is indicated if
RWW and offspring are interested.
∂24-Nov-80 0331 ES at MIT-MC (Gene Salamin)
Date: 24 NOV 1980 0629-EST
From: ES at MIT-MC (Gene Salamin)
To: ENERGY at MIT-MC
The following is taken from "Access to Energy", December 1980.
When you have breeder reactors, you can afford to extract uranium from
sea water at an estimated cost of less than $1000 per pound. At that price,
the fuel cost would still only contribute less than 1%, or $0.0003, to the
cost of a kWh of electricity. There is enough uranium in the sea to last
7 million years at present rates of power consumption. On the other hand,
16000 tons of uranium per year are washed into the oceans, and if extractd
at the same rate, uranium is a "renewable resource" providing twice the
present world consumption of all energy.
∂24-Nov-80 0346 ES at MIT-MC (Gene Salamin)
Date: 24 NOV 1980 0645-EST
From: ES at MIT-MC (Gene Salamin)
To: ENERGY at MIT-MC
Why all the fuss about hydrobromic acid? At least HBr is volatile, whereas
the sulfuric acid in your car battery is not. Is there any information
which corroborates the allegation that bromine reacts with teflon and glass?
∂24-Nov-80 0936 MINSKY at MIT-AI (Marvin Minsky)
Date: 24 NOV 1980 1234-EST
From: MINSKY at MIT-AI (Marvin Minsky)
To: MINSKY at MIT-AI, llw at SU-AI, RAH at SU-AI, JMC at SU-AI
To: Moravec at CMU-10A
Given that information energy is so small, there is a consequence for
missions that require one-time transmission -- e.g., an interstellar
fly-by. One computes the signal/noise ratio at the receiver
and finds how large the transmitting antenna must be, if it were
to send bits at energy cost of the order of a few kT.
Then, one observes that one can make the antenna radius N times
smaller, making the antenna mass N**2 smaller, but requiring N**2
times more energy. In most cases, it will pay to burn most of the
antenna to get the greater power -- for example if one is sending
piddling data-bases like libraries of Congress.
Of course, all this depends on relative costs of mass, energy, etc.
at the transmitting location.
∂24-Nov-80 1156 Bmoore at SRI-KL SRI/Stanford Interaction
Date: 24 Nov 1980 1156-PST
From: Bmoore at SRI-KL
Subject: SRI/Stanford Interaction
To: jmc at SAIL
cc: bmoore, grosz, nilsson
John,
Barbara Grosz, Nils, and I have been discussing how we might generate
more interaction between AI people at Stanford and SRI, and we have
come up with some ideas we would like to discuss with you. The basic
notion is that there would be substantial advantages to both Stanford
and SRI if we could get someone with a joint position between the two
institutions.
This would address several problems that we now see. We are looking
at the possiblity of hiring another person in our natural language
group, but some of the people we are most interested in are
unfortunately among the few university people who have been turning
out good students in this area. We are very reluctant to remove
someone like that from a university setting, because in the long run
that is not only bad for the field in general, but also for SRI, since
we have to depend on the universities for talent. A closely related
point is that we are very disturbed by the fact that there is no
serious work being done at Stanford on natural language processing.
Coupled with declining interest in this field at both MIT and CMU,
this means that the best computer science students in the country get
very little exposure to this field. We have been able to get a few
Stanford students to come work with us, notably Doug Appelt, but not
having day to day contact with the students makes it hard for us to
find out about them and for them to find out about us.
We see as a possible solution to these problems, hiring a top natural
language person as a half-time Stanford faculty member and half-time
SRI employee, who would teach a normal load at Stanford and focus his
research at SRI. The advantages to Stanford would be (1) to get what
amounts to a full time faculty member for only a half-time commitment,
and (2) to establish a first rate program in natural language
processing. The advantage to us would be to (1) generate a new source
of good students in NLP, (2) give us better access to those students
both while they are in school and afterwards, and (3) help us attract
a top person who might be reluctant to leave a university environment.
An advantage to both places would be that such a person would serve as
a strong link for communication between the Stanford and SRI AI
people. The informal links we now have, such as your seminar this
quarter, are good, but they have a tendency to die out. With someone
holding a joint position, there would be more of a continuous flow of
contacts. It is also in both our interests that SRI's hiring such a
person would not remove him as a resource in bringing students into
the field.
Finally, we think that this idea should have some appeal to you in
particular, John. It is clear to us that the types of problems we at
SRI are interested in are much closer to your interests than most of
what passes for AI at Stanford these days. Specifically, for this
natural language slot we are looking for someone with strong interests
in representation and deduction.
Other possibilites might be having two such people if Stanford can
only generate full slots, or having regular SRI people spend half-time
at Stanford to teach courses on a rotating basis.
If this sort of proposal interests you, Nils, Barbara, and I would
very much like to pursue it. We could get together after your next
seminar, or at some other mutually convenient time.
Please let us know what you think.
--Bob
-------
I let your message of 24 nov fall into a crack. How about getting together
late next week, say Friday, for lunch and discussion. I could come to SRI.
∂24-Nov-80 1325 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Please call Mimi Scrandis, SE2, 212 840 6595
∂24-Nov-80 1335 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Ray Reiter of U. of BC called re your participation in a philosophy
conference. Is anxious to speak with you. Can be reached the next hour
at 604 228 4l42, or later at 604 733 9l85.
c.v. and abstract before december 15, stich will comment,
fodor, churchland, pylyshyn, dennett maybe, hayes, hartree field
no written proceedings, steve savitt is philosopher
∂24-Nov-80 1852 BIS
Just had a visit from Prof Manfred Kudlek of Hamburg University. He tells
me that the German government is purchasing 10 (ten) Lisp Machines from
Symbolics and distribute them around the country; Hamburg gets two.
∂24-Nov-80 2111 HANS.MORAVEC at CMU-10A ergs per dead horse
Date: 25 Nov 1980 0009-EST
From: HANS.MORAVEC at CMU-10A
Subject: ergs per dead horse
To: forward at USC-ECL
cc: HANS.MORAVEC, llw at SU-AI, minsky at MIT-AI, rah at SU-AI, jmc at SU-AI
To belabor the point further, my immediate references were
Uncertainty and Information by Robert W. Keyes IBM RC-6215 9/20/76
Fundamental Limitations in the Computational Process by Rolf Landauer
IBM RC-6048 9/14/76
Both pretty much start with kT per e-it or kT ln2 per bit.
To get one way to achieve such an energy efficient transmission,
consider a blackbody at temp T. It has kT of energy in each oscillation
mode. If you add kT to one of the modes, an observer collecting
all of the energy from the blackbody will be able to resolve the
effect. I think the integration time necessary goes to infinity as
you approach the energy limit, though. Presumably you could
modulate each of the modes
independently. If you add 2kT to some and none to others, you
get a multibit binary message with average power kT per bit.
The bigger the body, the more modes and the higher the data rate.
∂24-Nov-80 2307 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) here's your chance
Date: 25 NOV 1980 0207-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: here's your chance
To: JMC at SU-AI
John-comsat returned this as not deliverable to
BBoard-SAIL
I dinna know how to get it to SAIL (or maybe it ain't
worth sending?)
I would very much like to see innovative ideas on ways the
administration could (1) save money and thus aid in tax cuts,
(2) provide innovative public services at reasonable costs
without increasing the burdens and regulatory functions of
government {example: use computers to give local fire
departments information on construction used in local
neighborhoods so that itr's easier to put out fires} or (3) make
real investments that would have good non-zero-sum payoffs for
future.
Interestingly enough, it's possible to get your inputs
somewhere that they might help. It's also possible that you're
stuffing them down a black hole. Be warned.
Replies to POURNE%MC
∂24-Nov-80 2340 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) mail to bboard
Date: 25 NOV 1980 0240-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: mail to bboard
To: JMC at SU-AI
Thanks.
We have an interesting opportunity here. Your idea for energy
and space speeches is good.
We need a SELECTIVE mailing list (lowell and like that) of
people with brains who can help us put such together. We can
tqke ideas and meld them into good words and give them to
Schriever and company and they will (provided we impress our
contact) actually get to the President. Awesome thought, no?
∂24-Nov-80 2348 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) Languages, etc..
Date: 25 NOV 1980 0248-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: Languages, etc..
To: POURNELLE at MIT-MC, JMC at MIT-MC, JNC at MIT-XX
(1) I do not admit that the word "bullshit" conveys much
information in a rational discussion.
(2) Your contention that you cannot have a good technical
education as well as a good "livberal arts" eductaion, followed
by your statement that they waste years 6 - 17 of age, seems
self-inconsistent. In most eras for most times, the "liberal
arts" were taught in what is now "High School" and although only
a portion of the populace learned, SOME did.
Now NO ONE does.
∂25-Nov-80 0024 LLW Die Untergang Des IBM-Landes
To: hans.moravec at CMU-10A
CC: LLW at SU-AI, JMC at SU-AI, RAH at SU-AI,
minsky at MIT-AI, forward at USC-ECL
Papers coming from IBM which treat fundamental limits on computing have a
regrettably high likelihood of being utter trash. For instance, Keyes is
most famous for a paper in which he `proves' that computers cannot operate
at an areal power dissipation level higher than 20 watts/cm**2 (among many
other similarly preposterous results). One graduate student whose work I
follow for the Hertz Foundation reported to me this evening that he has
very recently operated a cm**2 of `ordinary' silicon wafer at a CW,
uniform areal power dissipation density of 200 watts/cm**2 with a maximum
20 degree C temperature rise anywhere on it, while another Hertz student
has recently operated an optical digital logic gate at a power dissipation
level 10**8 times higher than Keyes, in another paper, `proved' that *any*
digital gate could possibly survive.
I suspect that any large, old civilization will plunge over the cliff just
about when its philosophers start to 'prove' that it's approaching the
ultimate limits, and enough of its people take them seriously. With
800,000 employees, the IBM civilization has 20 times the population of
pre-Christian Greece, and is probably comparably spiritually composed for
its coup de grace (from wherever).
Lowell
∂24-Nov-80 2111 HANS.MORAVEC at CMU-10A ergs per dead horse
Date: 25 Nov 1980 0009-EST
From: HANS.MORAVEC at CMU-10A
Subject: ergs per dead horse
To: forward at USC-ECL
cc: HANS.MORAVEC, llw at SU-AI, minsky at MIT-AI, rah at SU-AI, jmc at SU-AI
To belabor the point further, my immediate references were
Uncertainty and Information by Robert W. Keyes IBM RC-6215 9/20/76
Fundamental Limitations in the Computational Process by Rolf Landauer
IBM RC-6048 9/14/76
Both pretty much start with kT per e-it or kT ln2 per bit.
To get one way to achieve such an energy efficient transmission,
consider a blackbody at temp T. It has kT of energy in each oscillation
mode. If you add kT to one of the modes, an observer collecting
all of the energy from the blackbody will be able to resolve the
effect. I think the integration time necessary goes to infinity as
you approach the energy limit, though. Presumably you could
modulate each of the modes
independently. If you add 2kT to some and none to others, you
get a multibit binary message with average power kT per bit.
The bigger the body, the more modes and the higher the data rate.
∂25-Nov-80 0206 OTA
This note is being sent to all new people on the SPACE mailing list. It is
being distributed through SAIL once a day in rough digest format. Mail to
SPACE@MIT-MC will collect in a file at SAIL and be sent out at about 5:00 AM
PST. The topics to be covered will not be constrained but are expected to
include things like space colonization, solar power satellites and the like.
A log of mail sent to this list is being kept in the file SPACE.LOG[1,OTA]
at SAIL. You can type or FTP this file with out an account.
Any comments, complains, or requests pertaining to this list should be directed
to me,
Ted Anderson (OTA@SAIL)
∂25-Nov-80 0732 JRA more quixote-ism
john,
i'm trying to organize a lisp session for next the uc santa cruz summer
institute. would you be interest/available to give a guest lecture or two?
i'm not sure of the dates yet, but would be sometime in july-august.
john
I would be available, but I have just committed myself to a session
on AI and philosophy at Vancouver for the week before ijcai, and I'll
also be at ijcai. Other times are still possible.
∂25-Nov-80 0816 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky) low-energy fusion
Date: 25 NOV 1980 1111-EST
From: MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
Subject: low-energy fusion
To: MINSKY at MIT-ML, llw at SU-AI, rah at SU-AI, jmc at SU-AI
To: forward at USC-ECL
Has anyone considered Low-Energy Fusion schemes?
All this plasma stuff seems to be because when people jam their
protons together they hit electrons instead. You throw protons
into matter but, even if you are lucky enough to get within a
few proton radii, you get scattered into the electrons. So we
waste all the power heating up the plasma to fusion temperature.
It seems to me that it would be better to aim very carefully,
right at another proton. Then you need only 100kV or so.
I mentioned this to Feynman, who saw nothing wrong about it. The only
problem is finding a way to align the protons. Can't we tear ions out
of one crystal and impel them precisely into the interstices of
another? There must be some mirror trick, field-emission hack, or
something. Feynman suggested that we could start a rumor that someone
else had figured out how to do it, and then everyone would start
inventing ways, one of which might work.
I bet you guys could think of some microscopic strong-focussing
beam-aligner that would yield a pocket, almost-solid-state fusion
generator. No? Think how many problems it would solve.
-- marvin
∂25-Nov-80 1023 CSD.BSCOTT at SU-SCORE
Date: 24 Nov 1980 0906-PST
From: CSD.BSCOTT at SU-SCORE
To: JMC at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 23-Nov-80 1825-PST
We discovered this, John, but thanks. I don't know the answer--we may have
to leave the key available, but XEROX has specifically requested that we not
do this--and we are responsible for any damage done to the machines.
Betty
_
-------
∂25-Nov-80 1452 Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE> CS226 in winter
Date: 25 Nov 1980 1453-PST
From: Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE>
Stanford-Phone: (415) 497-2274
Subject: CS226 in winter
To: jmc at SU-AI
Have you thought about a TA for CS226 yet? I'm not sure how much to
budget for it. We usually give 10 hrs/week for a class with 25-35
students. Hard to estimate enrollment, since it has been a while since
you gave the course. Do you expect to need more or less TA help than
normal? Do you have anybody in mind? -Denny
-------
I don't have a TA in mind. If I can get a TA interested and familiar with
the material this would improve the course. Otherwise I can do without a
TA. It occurs to me that if I can't find a suitable TA, it might still
worthwhile to pay someone to hold hands a bit with students using FOL. It
would be cheaper for the department to pay piecework rates for this rather
than hiring a TA. By the way, I will need to use SAIL for the course in
order to use FOL, but it will not be a large part of the course.
∂25-Nov-80 1550 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Date: 25 NOV 1980 1847-EST
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
To: JMC at SU-AI
On the other hand, some modems disconnect whenever they lose carrier for
even a brief moment. If call-beeping momentarily disconnects you, that's
the end of your communication, even with a packet protocol that protects
against normal phone line noise.
Yes. The other contributions to the latest HUMAN-NETS showed that this
is what actually happens.
∂25-Nov-80 1700 OTA SPACE Digest
To: "@SPACE.DIS[1,OTA]" at SU-AI
Administrivia:
Hopefully from know on these messages will contain a subject field. Also
an alias name for the mailing list now exists: SPACE-ENTHUSIASTS@MC. I
know its longer but its use is recomended. SPACE@MC will continue to
exist but there have been some ambiguity problems with the shorter name
and it may go away.
!∂25-Nov-80 1129 TAW at SU-AI Shuttle landings (real and fictional)
Date: 25 Nov 1980 1125-PST
From: TAW at SU-AI
Subject: Shuttle landings (real and fictional)
To: SPACE at MIT-MC, SF-LOVERS at MIT-AI
If I am not mistaken, the Columbia will be landing at Edwards
AFB (near L.A.) after her initial launch (supposedly on Mar 14) and
3 day mission. Does anyone know if there is some place near Edwards
with a reasonable view of the landing field, where normal human
non-military, non-press types are allowed?? Since it is unlikely
that I will get to KSC for the launch, I would at least like to see the
landing, if possible. Anybody else want to go???
Regarding Shuttle landings, there is what appears to be an
excellent story in the current issue of ANALOG magazine, called
'Shuttle Down'. (I say 'appears to be' because it is the first part
of four, so be warned.) It concerns a post-launch engine malfunction
and emergency landing of the Atlantis. I recommend it.
-- Tom
∂25-Nov-80 2004 LWE NS tape
To: REG
CC: JMC
Just a quick word of thanks for writing and sending the tape.
Sorry about this late acknowledgment - everything looks fine after
copying files to our DEC-20 and beyond. I'll clear the unused disk
space as soon as I have found a way to salvage the tail end
written since you wrote the tape for me.
∂25-Nov-80 2011 LWE help (again...)
I am trying to copy the tail end of digest.ns[1,lwe] (from 100/134 to
11100/168) to a separate file (octobr.ns) so I can free
the remaining space (tail end was written after Ralph wrote the
tape) but I seem to have trouble doing it (your editor is
apparently somewhat different from ours). Can you advise?
I have also entered a new request for accumulating digests in
file apdigs.ns since the old one had expired. Otherwise everything
looks just fine (Ihope to get some more surveys, and also hear from
NSF, before end of year, so in time there should be something to show).
I have formatted your file by letting E put a directory on it as the
first page. The simplest thing to do is to go through the successive
pages with a macro defined by
αβ∞αβdαβxdel<cr>
which deletes all the information on a page and then deletes the page
mark separating it from the next page. I would do it for you but I
it wasn't sufficiently clear which pages you needed to delete from
the file. If you look at it again and tell me what pages to delete,
I'll do it for you, and it will take but a few minutes.
∂26-Nov-80 0055 RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
Date: 26 NOV 1980 0356-EST
From: RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
To: JMC at MIT-AI
I believe I understand how Creary's treatment
of quantification differs from yours.
I'll phone you tomorrow.
∂26-Nov-80 0130 LLW How Cool Is Your Fusion Cold Plate?
To: minsky at MIT-AI
CC: LLW at SU-AI, RAH at SU-AI, JMC at SU-AI,
forward at USC-ECL, hans.moravec at CMU-10A
∂25-Nov-80 0816 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky) low-energy fusion
Date: 25 NOV 1980 1111-EST
From: MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
Subject: low-energy fusion
To: MINSKY at MIT-ML, llw at SU-AI, rah at SU-AI, jmc at SU-AI
To: forward at USC-ECL
Has anyone considered Low-Energy Fusion schemes?
All this plasma stuff seems to be because when people jam their
protons together they hit electrons instead. You throw protons
into matter but, even if you are lucky enough to get within a
few proton radii, you get scattered into the electrons. So we
waste all the power heating up the plasma to fusion temperature.
It seems to me that it would be better to aim very carefully,
right at another proton. Then you need only 100kV or so.
I mentioned this to Feynman, who saw nothing wrong about it. The only
problem is finding a way to align the protons. Can't we tear ions out
of one crystal and impel them precisely into the interstices of
another? There must be some mirror trick, field-emission hack, or
something. Feynman suggested that we could start a rumor that someone
else had figured out how to do it, and then everyone would start
inventing ways, one of which might work.
I bet you guys could think of some microscopic strong-focussing
beam-aligner that would yield a pocket, almost-solid-state fusion
generator. No? Think how many problems it would solve.
-- marvin
[Alas, Marvin, molecular hydrogen melts at 20 degrees Kelvin, and there
are *very* few places in the universe where you can operate interestingly
large heat engines with a 20 degree Kelvin `hot plate,' since the `cold
plate' has to be substantially cooler than this. If you permit the fusion
events which might be made to occur with ultra-fine focussing to heat the
crystalline hydrogen above its melting point, the game ends immediately.
Creating a usefully ultra-high *brightness* beam of deuterons or tritons
(or deuterium or tritium atoms) would be *very* difficult, but I believe
that it could be done, perhaps even in a practical fashion. However, I
don't know how to beat these seemingly fundamental thermodynamics
limitations. Your other points are most apt, and a few of us have stewed
many an hour (while our death ray calculations were grinding along to
fruition) on how to string them together into a useful approach to
non-plasma fusion, with essentially no progress. As for RPF's remark, I'm
delighted to see that while his physical cleverness has not seen
notable expression recently, his sneakiness re human behavior has not
fallen off at all! Lowell]
∂26-Nov-80 1000 JMC*
call about office automation paper
∂26-Nov-80 1059 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Dr. Gibbons office called to say there would be a CIS meeting on
December 4 at ll a.m. in MccCullough 240. Will sent agenda.
∂26-Nov-80 1722 FWH PV+A Seminar
To: "@SEM.DIS[SEM,VER]" at SU-AI
PROGRAM VERIFICATION AND ANALYSIS SEMINAR
PLACE: ERL 237
TIME: 2:30 p.m., Tuesday, December 2
SPEAKER: Joseph Goguen, SRI International and UCLA
TITLE: Programming Language Semantics Using Parameterized
Abstract Modules
ABSTRACT:
A method for defining the semantics of programming languages is given,
using parameterized abstract data types to form a directed acyclic graph
of modules, each of which corresponds to some feature of the language.
"Features" in this sense sometimes represent a syntactic construction
with its semantic definition, and sometimes represent more basic design
decisions about the structure of the semantics. It is recommended
that definitions be written in an executable abstract specification
language like OBJT. This method has the following advantages: it is
relatively easier to understand such a definition than a standard
denotational definition, because it is organized into well-structured
modules, and the use of flexable user-definable syntax; it is also
relatively easy to modify or to extend such a definition, not only
because of the modularity, but also because of the use of parameter-
ization; it is possible to debug the definition by actually symbolically
executing test cases, that is, programs; the definition is relatively
compact, and imposes relatively little implementation bias, because
of its abstract algebraic style. This talk includes the details of a
modest programming language definition illustrating these points.
∂27-Nov-80 0103 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) co-generation etc
Date: 27 NOV 1980 0400-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: co-generation etc
To: ENERGY at MIT-MC, MD at MIT-XX
Certainly one is better off with uses for "waste" heat
and "thermal pollution"; and certainly the over-all energy
efficiency of a society can be raised enormously by using the
left-over low grade heat from thermal processes, rather than
taking high-grade energy like electricity and turning it into
space heat.
The costs, however, are not trivial. Heat doesn't
transmit very well. Steam tunnels cost a LOT to build, and ways
of piping 30 - 40 degree C water over long distances without
loss of the heat resource are simply prohibitively expensive.
Thus you need a COMPACT society; one in which houses are built
close together, perhaps. That has other advantages for energy
efficiency too. Unfortunately, that is not the model of US life
in most cities---and tearing down our detached houses to start
over again would use a rather incredible amount of energy also.
The problem comes when one thinks of conservation not as
one of a number of competing methods for solving the energy
problem, but as a morally superior method which need not be
economically competitive, and which is to be preferred even if
the costs is social chaos.
Conservation is not moral per se. Given plenty of
energyb there is nothing wrong with "waste". To be sure, if the
energy must be generaated at a cost of severe environmental
degradation, then conservation looks awfully good; but benign
sources of energy look better, despite Wendell Berry and his
group which explicitly say that they would reject unlim,ited
environmentally free energy were it offered.
∂27-Nov-80 1151 HANS.MORAVEC at CMU-10A storage, communication and ergs
Date: 27 Nov 1980 1449-EST
From: HANS.MORAVEC at CMU-10A
Subject: storage, communication and ergs
To: forward at USC-ECL
cc: HANS.MORAVEC, llw at SU-AI, minsky at MIT-AI, rah at SU-AI, jmc at SU-AI
This should have been obvious from the start, but it has only
just gelled in my mind:
Storage and communication of information are the very same thing.
You can view storage as communication to a future self;
its most obvious with delay line storage, where a communication
medium iis being used for storage, or less clearly when a storage medium
is used for communication, as when you mail a floppy disk to a friend.
One point this raises is the effect of time (or equivalently, distance)
on the message. When a bit is stored, there is a certain probability
that it will get clobbered by the thermal background in a given time;
it has a half-lfe. If you store it with only kT energy, this
half-life will be short, because the potential well is shallow.
Similarly, a message will decay in transit. A photon based signal
is subject to photon-photon scattering with the
thermal radiation background.
This seems to imply that storage and communication with minimal
energy has severe time and distance limits.
Does the time and distance approach zero as energy per bit approaches
kT?
∂27-Nov-80 1247 JAK via AMES-TIP Sequence extrapolation
To: JMC
CC: JAK
Merry Christmas!
Thhanks for the suggestions on implementation. I think I've almost figured
the geometry out. How many obstacles do you want to allow for? If you
want to make this a more difficult test, there are two additions that could
be made. You've probably thought of doing this in three or more dimensions.
I'm also thinking about letting the number of sides of the obstacles vary
in some way.
I've been receiving messages that the purger will eat my files. How does
one become an authorized user?
later-
John
I attempted to authorize you by sending a note to REG (Ralph Gorin) when
I created your directory. You might ask him, but it takes a while to
get in the official file.
∂27-Nov-80 2108 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
Date: 28 NOV 1980 0008-EST
From: MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
To: MINSKY at MIT-ML, rah at SU-AI, llw at SU-AI, jmc at SU-AI
To: moravec at CMU-10A
Hans is right about memory and transmission being similar. This
supports Bremermann's "action" measure, in that Bremermann sees that
one must pay action-rent on storage as much as on computation and
transmission devices.
I think Moravec's thermal agitation thing may also be right -- that
there is a time-decay problem with storage. However, I have a
question about it, that applies perhaps more clearly to Hans'
observation about photon-photon interaction affecting information
decay on long trips. The issue, it seems to me, is whether there are
fundamental physical limits to thermal insulation. Here is the
problem; I think it is an important question that relates to the
"energy crisis". Consider a light-pipe with multiple layers of
insulation:
space at 2.7K
================================
--------------------------------
refrigerated light channel
--------------------------------
================================
space at 2.7K
Now, if there is no fundamental limit to the effectiveness of
insulation, then an arbitrarily small amount of refrigeration power
will keep the 2.7K background out of the pipe. For example, the
layers could be mirrors, and enough of them would reduce the entrance
of photons as long as we want. I think this means that the path
length need not affect information decay.
(But there might be a different problem -- dispersion -- which limits
the rate of transmission as a function of path length.)
Now return to the question about the decay of information when stored
close to the minimal potential well for the kT information quantum.
It seems to me that we can get around that decay as follows:
refrigerate the delay line (again, as above) to some temperature much
lower than 2.7K. If we transform the data into the lower temperature
system, then the time scales become longer, so one has a smaller rate
of decay.
Now, I am not making a different mistake here: a naive error is to
suppose that cooling the system allows a smaller kT. This is true in
a sense, but because entropy is dQ/T, it will require the same entropy
in the outer universe to create the equivalent kT' -- through the
refrigerator -- inside the refrigerator. Nevertheless (I am
conjecturing) the transformation will pay in this case -- if, as I
suspect, the lower temperature means a slower time-scale inside.
Perhaps I am wrongly ignoring the chance of an outer fluctuation
getting through the refrigerator or something, but I don't think so.
Now, this question is directed to Lowell and Rod, I think. Do we know
any really good fundamental limit to the insulating power of a
material structure? First let's ignore the unfortunate problem of
Earth's heavy atmosphere. Is the best thing, then, a series of
concentric monatomic film reflectors? If so, that gives a sort of
practical bound. More practically, for insulating our houses, we have
to create the equuivalent of vacuum, and perhaps then we have a bound
in the compressive strength of the spacers between the vacuum walls.
Also, I suppose there's a minimum wall thickness or the air will pass
through anyway. But all such arguments trun on some particular
invention, specifically, variants of the Dewar flask. Can one think
of a less ad hoc fundamental calculation? Why can't we fabricate a
millimeter-thin film with an R-value of 10**6, for example?
--- marvin
----------
It seems to me that you did work proportional to the number of bits
you wish to store when you cooled the container. Moreover, when you
built the insulator you do work proportional to the R-value you want,
which is in turn proportional to the length of time you can keep the
bits.
∂27-Nov-80 2150 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) Foreign Legions and downloaders.
Date: 28 NOV 1980 0050-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: Foreign Legions and downloaders.
To: JMC at SU-AI
(1) Yes I can get an evaluation although how long it takes I
don't know; it won't be a high priority item from me (my
priority interrupts are on space and technology only so far).
help wanted
Would you be willing to advise Jerry Pournelle (sf writer and
mc user) with the problem that follows. "here" is L.A. and I
presume he uses a TIP from his home computer system. He is
called POURNE@MC and may be logged in now.
(2) I badly need a good protocol for downloading files; some way
that files can be sent from its or sail to here, with a
character I can send to temporarily stop the sending while I
write off to disk; then continue from where left off. I don't
know of any progrtams on that end that can do that. Know any?
The problem is that the net keeps sending when we can 't be
receiving because the machine has filled the buffer and wants to
write to disk.
JEP
The extreme thing to do is to divide the file into subfiles that
aren't too long. However, there is probably a better way. Let me
see if I can locate an expert who will help you.
∂28-Nov-80 0149 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 28 NOV 1980 0442-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: JMC at SU-AI
Not on downloads, but I am told there is something in the works
with the CP/M mail list, and when people return I'll get it.
Your Legion idea a good one; now that we do not have conscripton
we have little incentive for resident aliens to serve in armed
forces. Of course teh French were concerned about the Legion to
the point that it was never supposed to set foot on French soil
(and didn't until WW I; even then it was sent back to algeria as
soon as possible).
I didn't mean a legion as an organization. Merely the idea of
taking foreigners into the armed services. Unlike the French,
Americans wouldn't be offended by having to share tents with
foreigners. Incidentally, I'll have a technological proposal
for you shortly as soon as I finish writing it up.
∂28-Nov-80 0200 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 28 NOV 1980 0459-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: JMC at SU-AI
Yes, I gathered that you didn't. However, there is some
interest in elite units which are trained in ways possibly not
permitted to use on citizens, at least as citizens are regarded
at present. (It would be nice if the sergeants didn't have to
be QUITE so polite lest Congres and the IG have their hide; or
so some regulars tell me.)
But I understood what you meant, and was merely speculating.
Proposal gratefully expected. I am doing a series of policy
papers and suggestions now that we have a channel established.
I had noped for something more from the net than I got; what I
got was fiar words without buttered parnips, or plain gas. Ah,
well. I should, I expect, have stuck to asking people I know.
I do wonder: how hard is a mailing list to establish? A sort of
space/energy thinkers group, people who are likely to have
intelligent ideas once in a while, and won't waste lots of time
with chatter? I can ask next week when the experts get back to
MIT, because it might be a good idea.
JEP
∂28-Nov-80 0444 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #149
Date: 28 NOV 1980 0739-EST
LLOYD@MIT-AI 11/27/80 11:31:26 Re: Voter Control
Robert.Frederking was apalled at the idea of a small group
controlling the electorate. He said that this did not further the
concept of the democracy. I am not sure that the democracy should
be preserved.
First, let us look at the people we meet everyday on the street.
Is anyone out there going to look me in the eye and tell me that
EVERYONE is fully capable of making intelligent decisions? I feel
that the answer is an emphatic NO! Unfortunately, those of us
on the net are used to a society whose level of intelligence is
probably better than a standard of deviation higher than the mean.
This skews our viewpoint in favor of the democratic system.
Please understand: I am not advocating the abolishment of personal
liberty nor of equally applied justice. I just want to remove the
decision making power of the electorate at large (an unlikely
occurence). I would like to skew the power base in favor of people
capable of making decisions. The media, as already noted, is one
way of doing this. Can anyone think of any others?
Brian Lloyd
∂28-Nov-80 1308 RPG CF Committee
I got a memo on committees from DPB and you are not listed as a member
of the CF committee; is this an error?
-rpg-
∂28-Nov-80 1504 CSD.SCHREIBER at SU-SCORE [CSD.SCHREIBER: Comp ctte. first meeting]
Date: 28 Nov 1980 1503-PST
From: CSD.SCHREIBER at SU-SCORE
Subject: [CSD.SCHREIBER: Comp ctte. first meeting]
To: csd.ossher at SU-SCORE, jeb at SU-AI, csd.gischer at SU-SCORE,
csd.clarkson at SU-SCORE, jmc at SU-AI, csd.yao at SU-SCORE,
csd.rwf at SU-SCORE, csl.lantz at SU-SCORE, csd.schreiber at SU-SCORE
Date: 28 Nov 1980 1450-PST
From: CSD.SCHREIBER
Subject: Comp ctte. first meeting
cc: csd.schreiber
Dear Comp. Ctte. member,
I would like to have a meeting befor the quarter break to delegate
the job of making up exam questions and to decide on a work schedule
and meeting time. We will give the exam in late Jan. or early Feb.
As you know (maybe) there is no programming exam anymore. Students
will be submitting portfolios of programs to fulfill the requirement,
but none has been submitted so far.
Is Monday, Dec. 15 at 10:00 AM in room 301 MJH okay? Please
let me know what times are acceptable for our regular meetings.
To send mail to the whole ctte., you can use *<csd.schreiber>comp.dis
as the address.
Rob
---------------
-------
---------------
-------
∂28-Nov-80 1641 LWE digest.ns reduction
Thanks for advice - sorry previous message was unclear. I am trying
to preserve pages 134 through 169 and delete everything else
(pages 1 through 133). I would do it using your EDIT macro to delete
all pages up to 133 inclusive, but I am just a bit reluctant to do it
in an editor with which I'm not really familiar re backup/recovery.
May I take you up, therefore, on your kind offer to do it for me?
(If it's more tedium than you bargained for, just leave word on
recommended backup procedure to guard against possible screw-up, and
I'll take it from there). I had assumed there was a way to specify an
output file to the editor and simply copy a designated (page/line) range
to the new file, then delete the old file in its entirety...
THANKS MUCH!!!!!
∂28-Nov-80 1826 VRP via Dialnet Pournelle
First aid rendered.
Thanks.
∂28-Nov-80 1917 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
Date: 28 NOV 1980 2217-EST
From: MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
To: MINSKY at MIT-ML, jmc at SU-AI, rah at SU-AI, llw at SU-AI
To: moravec at CMU-10A
John: I agree you have to do the work to cool the container to store the
bits. I don't think you gain or lose in that respect. But does not
the conjecture seem plausible that this could win on the time-scale.
More precisely, if you store a bit with MkT of energy, then you can
expect it to stay there until the noise happens to exceed M standard
deviations. I think that's about it. But also, I have a feeling that
the time-scale of the fluctuations of the noise is inverse to the
temperature. I'm really just guessing here, but I think so. So, if
that's true, one might gain in time-scale by refrigerating.
On your second point, that one has to pay for R-value, I just don't
know. I used to think insulation was exponential, and was sad to
learn that it is resistive, and perhaps that means you're right.
About insulation limits: one could resist atmospheric pressure
in a vacuum bottle by using magnetic levitation, and this might
cost no entroy once the inner section is cold enough. (Maybe one
uses a permanent magnet on the warm, outer side.) Then instead of
having a material conductive path, one has a magnetic force path.
I have the intuition that if this is "spread out" over an area,
then it is a rotten heat conductor, since it can't transmit
localized thermal vibrations but smooths them out.
If this particular discussion is boring you guys I'll stop it.
I still think the US would benefit from a basic paper on insulation.
But perhaps someone has written one, in the 19th century, perhaps?
--- marvin
∂28-Nov-80 2236 RWG at MIT-MC (Bill Gosper)
Date: 29 NOV 1980 0135-EST
From: RWG at MIT-MC (Bill Gosper)
To: JMC at SU-AI
Date: 26 Nov 1980 2237-PST
From: John McCarthy <JMC at SU-AI>
If I lent you Kettenbruche by Perron, I would like it back.
I have a copy crated at CCRMA, but I think I b(r)ought it from the MIT COOP.
I'll be happy to lend it to you.
∂29-Nov-80 0234 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas) 2nd Law etc.
Date: 29 NOV 1980 0530-EST
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Subject: 2nd Law etc.
To: JGA at MIT-MC
CC: ENERGY at MIT-MC
99.9999999999999% of available energy is going to waste because we are
just letting it slip away instead of tapping it. If you count only
the energy leaving the Sun, 99.9999% of it isn't even hitting the
Earth so we are wasting it by not building a Dyson sphere. Probably
at least 10% of what strikes the Earth is generally useful for
maintaining the biosphere (ignoring the general warning of the planet
where waste heat is just as good as solar heat), so even if we're
wasting the other 90% that's only one order of magnitude which I'm not
worried about when I talk about 16 orders of magnitude of waste.
Anyway, 6 or 7 orders of magnitude "waste" for the Sun, if we include
the Milky Way we're losing another 8 orders of magnitude, 14 or 15 so
far ... include the other galaxies and we have another 8 orders
of magnitude, but I'll be conservative and say we won't have time to
explore more than maybe 1000 galaxies before the "heat death" (our local
group is trivial, the Virgo cluster is our major goal of exploration)
so I'll stop at 17 or 18 orders of magnitude total. Anyway, the point
is that fussing about efficiencies that are "only" 20% is stupid when
there are orders of magnitude of improvement in our available energy.
If the waste heat from some process degrades the biosphere in some
significant way that we can't counterreact, then sure worry about
that extra waste heat we're releasing, but worrying about wasting
energy in vacuuo is utterly absurd if we're talking about getting
more and more new (previously-totally-untapped) energy. I'd much
rather get 100 times as much energy as present, and waste 90% of
it, than worry like a dog trying to increase our present efficiency
a few percentage points on a fixed energy-income. If anyone thinks
there is any rational reason for taking the opposite opinion, speak up!
∂29-Nov-80 0449 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #150
Date: 29 NOV 1980 0743-EST
From: DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II)
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #150
To: HUMAN-NETS at MIT-AI
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Saturday, 29 Nov 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 150
Today's Topics: Election '80 - Impact of Information,
Home Info Services - Satellite TV Option,
Automation - Intelligent Robots & Safety of Robots
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 28 November 1980 0948-EST
From: Hank Walker at CMU-10A
Subject: democracy
One way to filter out mass stupidity is with the system that
exists now: representational democracy. Regardless of propaganda,
I think that most of the reps in state and federal government are
reasonably intelligent. But on the other hand, the propositions
that have appeared on the ballot in CA are not exactly crazy. It
must be pointed out though that many that have passed have been
ruled unconstitutional, such as campaign financing and open
housing. It seems to me that we do not have a pure democracy. The
media and paid political advertising (people with money) are able
to direct the flow of public opinion, although they can't control
it. When was the last time you heard some real crazies on TV that
were presented as reasonable? My last time was a LaRoche (fascist)
commercial. People like the SLA or Weather Underground, or other
'radicals' have always appeared crazy on TV. The same goes for
the Moral Majority, NCPAC, etc nowadays.
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 1980 1100-PST
From: David Lowe <DLO at SU-AI>
Subject: Intelligence artificial?
Brian Lloyd is doubtful about the value of democracy given the
average person's level of ignorance. He thinks people on this
net are skewed in favor of democracy because they are normally
in contact with people of much higher than average intelligence.
I have not personally been struck by the intelligence or level
of political knowledge of net people, and I think "intelligence"
is being confused with the sharing of interests, opinions, and
priorities. I think a much more significant effect is that the
average person on this net is skewed AGAINST democracy, since
the people on this net will have much more opportunity to push
for their own way in the absence of democracy than will the
average person. I expect the reason people seem ignorant and are
constantly voting against their own interests is more because of
extensive flaws in the media and information sources than because
of a lack of intelligence.
------------------------------
OAF@MIT-MC 11/28/80 15:45:27 Re: home-sat reception
So what if the earth station installers have a bunch of REALLY
angry customers? For all of what they're missing, the customers
can go stew. If the earth station/turkey installer really wants to
sell the service, let him/her/it play it as it lies and pay the
rates to get it as the programming supplier intended. (That's
through the nose, right?)
As far as I can see, it's a lot of ho-hum. Silly people in a silly
industry fighting their silly fights. If they hadn't demeaned the
satellites' potential so grossly to start with, I'd care a little.
But I don't, and don't intend to start.
The only interesting point to come out of this is that a
programming supplier needn't acquire extensive legal coverage to
make a profit. A little technical smarts will do just fine. And
there are always fools out there willing to pay for whatever
crapola said supplier feels like coming up with. Just as well too
- lawyers get too much business anyway.
I must sound like Scrooge. That suits me fine.
Oded
----
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 1980 0118-PST (Saturday)
From: Lauren at UCLA-SECURITY (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: robots
TODAY'S TOPIC: Is There A Robot In Your Future?
By LILLIAN SWANSON
Associated Press Writer
PITTSBURGH (AP) - A robot that can tell the difference between
a 2-inch screw and a 3-inch bolt and decide what to do with them
makes a better worker than a robot that balks when anything but
the bolt comes down the assembly line.
Development of such a "smart robot" is the aim of 30 scientists
and engineers at Carnegie-Mellon University's new Robotics
Institute, who hope their research will create the footsoldiers of
the robotics revolution now sweeping industry.
"In a nutshell, we are trying to put artificial intellligence
in robots," said Dr. Angel Jordan, dean of CMU's Carnegie Institute
of Technology.
"Current robots are nothing more than mechanisms that are
programmed to do certain tasks in repetition. We want to add an
element of artificial intelligence so they can make decisions or
cope with changes," Jordan said in a recent interview.
A major project already under way is the development of robot
systems for a "factory of the future" that have both human and
robot workers.
But your future neighbor in this future factory won't look
like the stumpy R2-D2 of "Star Wars." Industrial robots in CMU's
labs instead are mechanical arms of varying degrees of flexibility,
linked to computer "brains." Jordan said the new robots will have
a sense of touch and what amounts to three-dimensional vision.
The Robotics Institeonstrations, said the institute director,
Dr. Raj Reddy.
CMU President Richard Cyert said one big goal of the new
institute is to develop robot systems equal to or better than
those of the Japanese, who are the current world leaders.
The Japanese claim a total 30,000 robots in their factories.
At the Zama factory of Nissan Motor Co., one of the most automated
in the world, 96.4 percent of the body parts of Datsun cars are
welded by robots performing in military-like precision.
Introduction of robots into U.S factories has been slow, despite
initial claims of increased productivity, reduced errors and lower
labor costs. About 4,500 robots are in use in the nation today,
according to an official at Unimation Inc., a robot manufacturer.
The need to boost productivity in American factories is a big
factor behind the push toward smarter robots.
"As a country we must increase productivity," said Cyert. "The
robots look like a major factor in developing such increases."
Cyert said he believes the economy of the future will create
new jobs faster than the labor force can grow. Robots can take up
the slack, he said.
Besides stepping into mill jobs, robots could be developed for
hazardous jobs such as coal mining and nuclear work.
Tony Massaro, director of the robotics technology division of
the Westinghouse Electric Corp., said robots already are moving
into some of their least desirable factory jobs, such as spray
painting and material handling.
Westinghouse has 30 robots working in its plants and plans
to expand the force to 200 by the end of next year, he said.
Westinghouse, besides taking part in several CMU-Robotics
Institute projects, including the automated production of
turbine blades, has given the institute $1 million this year
and has promised $4 million over the next four years.
Another high priority at the institute is to speed the transfer
of technology from lab to labor, Reddy said. He said the normal
transfer time from the research and development stage to actual
use in industry is 10 years, but institute officials hope to cut
that to four years or less.
Massaro said Westinghouse has not encountered any problems
from workers who have been replaced by robots.
"But that's not by chance," he said. "We have a systematic
way of introducing them. We tell everybody up front what is
happening and get them involved."
He said some of those displaced were moved into robot
maintenance: "We've not laid anybody off, but we've put them
in better jobs."
CMU is not ignoring the impact of job displacement either.
"We have a responsibility to the nation to anticipate what
types of impact robots might make," Jordan said. "We are
analyzing the impacts. We don't have the final answers, but
we are working on it."
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 1980 1316-PST (Thursday)
From: Lauren at UCLA-SECURITY (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: Acceptance of technology (robots?)
To: SF-LOVERS at MIT-AI
The following news story, by its very existence, indicates that we
may have more than a few problems in gaining acceptance for future
"servo mechanisms". It's unfortunate that such things are considered
to be "news". Maybe if we told everyone about Asimov's Three Laws
of Robotics...
------------------------------
UF Robot Self Destructs
GAINESVILLE, Fla. (AP) - An experimental robot shaped like a human
arm went haywire and attacked itself, dislocating its shoulder, says
the University of Florida student who was operating the robot at the
time.
Harvey Lipkin, a graduate student in the mechanical engineering
department blamed a "hardware failure" for the malfunctioning robotic
arm and said the incident "pointed out the dramatic need to use
robotic safety devices.'
Lipkin, 29, said he was controlling the $50,000 aluminum arm a
few weeks ago when it slammed itself into its supporting stand. "It
happened before I could hit the kill switch," Lipkin said Thursday.
"Luckily, nobody was in its reach or grasp." The incident was made
public this week.
The arm, about five feet long and weighing 70 pounds, was
constructed for research purposes, but is similar to those used
in manufacturing processes and "to do things where the human can
be replaced," Lipkin said.
"As of now, there's really no way to prevent injury if there is
failure," he said. "They are essentially very stupid or dumb devices.
If something comes into the work area, like a person, it (the robot)
would probably plow right through it."
While the arm is back in operating order, it hasn't returned to
work, Lipkin said.
"We are going to install an elementary safety device so at least
if it rams into its stand, it will shut off," he said.
------------------------------
--Lauren--
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂29-Nov-80 0500 OTA SPACE Digest
To: "@SPACE.DIS[SPA,OTA]" at SU-AI
----------------------------------------
Date: 29 NOV 1980 0133-EST
From: VAD at MIT-MC (Al Walker)
To: SPACE at MIT-MC
Apologies for the recent load of stuff that has reached you all
by mistake, through confusion about names. The mail intended
for FERNS went to some user called SPACE at AI, and wound up going
to you also. Oh well.. this shouldn't happen again, if it does let me know.
In the meantime could I join your list? What's it really about?
Sounds interesting..
Thanx,
Hobbit
∂29-Nov-80 0538 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas) robots
Date: 29 NOV 1980 0837-EST
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Subject: robots
To: Lauren at UCLA-SECURITY
CC: JMC at SU-AI
(1) That's an obvious task that nobody thought of before, robot telling
the difference between screw and bolt etc. Glad somebody finally
thought of it (I didn't, alas).
(2) Deteriorata: There's always a future in computer maintenance.
Lauren: There's always a future in robot maintenance.
Yup. That's an excellent way to avoid layoffs and increase productivity.
Of course you have to time it carefully, during a temporary slack just
before a boom, so you have the free time to do the initial training,
but you can make use of the extra productivity during the boom.
(3) Here's my grand schems. Robots that can dismantle junked cars and
other equipment to separate the usable parts and sort the rest of the
stuff according to chemical composition (steel, copper, chrome-steel,
hydrocarbons, glass, etc.) so that it can be efficiently recycled.
Imagine robots working through the junkyards of East Palo Alto, putting
parts of various kinds into various bins, when a bin fills up the robot
prints a label and sticks it to the side of the bin then moves the bin
into a truck for transporting to the regional parts place. When the
truck is fully loaded, it auto-drives to the train loading dock where
the whole trailer of the truck is lifted onto a train car. When the
train is fully loaded, it an engineer and brakeman and conductor sit
in the engine and haul it to the regional parts place. When the train
arrives, robots take over again, unloading each train car and checking
the label on each bin to see which train to transfer the bin to for
forwarding to the national recycling place for that type of material.
Fetherbedding hauls it across the country where robots unload and
smelt the raw materials, or perform a second level of sorting on
usable-as-is parts.
Date: 29 Nov 1980 at 1119-CST
From: david at UTEXAS-11
Subject: Reply to: co-generation etc
To: POURNE at MIT-MC
cc: energy at mit-mc
It is not a valid argument against conservation to suggest that
it would be necessary to tear down existing wasteful systems and
structures to replace them by conserving ones.
It might be agreed that such a replacement would be prohibitively
expensive (it requires a careful analysis), but certainly we can
recognize that the job needn't be done all in an instant. We can
simply identify conservation as a desirable feature, and we can act
to build and choose in the future systems and structures that
conserve.
If I were to build a new house you can be sure that conservation
of all consumables (energy, water, food, et al) and solar energy
collection would be high priority considerations. That does not
mean that these considerations will be the only ones, or even that
they will not allow the other features I would find desirable. By
that time, it probably won't even "cost extra", because those will
be standard techniques and methods.
It is because conservation and solar energy use are desirable
intrinsically that a majority of Americans when questioned say
these should be our number one energy choices for the future.
Consider a simple, specific example: a house that is well insulated
and well sealed, with controlled and efficient ventilation, is a
more pleasant house to live in because it should have fewer hot
or cold spots or drafts. It is likely too, to be better sound
insulated. When I built my house I figured a big central air
unit would take care of us just fine; that and good insulation
were the standard of the time. But even if electricity were free
to me, I know that now I could build a house using existing
conservation/solar technology that would be much more pleasant
to live in.
I must respond also to your incidental comment about "Wendell
Berry and his group". I am only familiar with him through his
letters to the `CoEvolution Book' SPACE COLONIES. I find I
agree with him that the prospect of the availability of
"unlimited energy" (without environmental injury [ thank you
for that concession. ] ) would be a frightening prospect.
I feel certain there are many, many people that could not
handle it responsibly. I wonder if there is any human yet
born that could deal responsibly (ethically, morally,
religiously, whatever-you-will) with such a situation.
I do not presume to speak for Wendell Berry. But I have to ask
really, how does the use of a label, like ".. and his group"
serve the discussion? I would be glad if we could all say
directly what we want to say, including the use of direct
quotes from others for the purpose of discussion, rather
than fail to communicate through using non-specific references.
Thank you for hearing me out,
david m. phillips
-------
∂29-Nov-80 1410 MD at MIT-XX Re: 2nd Law etc.
Date: 29 Nov 1980 1701-EST
From: MD at MIT-XX
Subject: Re: 2nd Law etc.
To: REM at MIT-MC
cc: MD at MIT-XX,
:, energy at MIT-MC
In-Reply-To: Your message of 29-Nov-80 0530-EST
I agree with your philosophy, but I still believe that it makes
sense to use resources in an economically efficient manner. Resources
which are effectively limitless are very cheap or free. For at least
the short term, energy does not fall into that category. If we can come
up with some good ideas to use our current energy resources a little
more efficiently, then we have more resources for investment in basic
research and space exploration/exploitation.
Mike Dornbrook
-------
∂29-Nov-80 1828 HITCHCOCK at CCA (Chip Hitchcock) 2nd law etc.
Date: 29 NOV 1980 2122-EST
From: HITCHCOCK at CCA (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: 2nd law etc.
To: rem at MIT-MC
cc: energy at MIT-MC
It seems to me that your remarks about 9...% ignore one important factor;
most of the energy that is "going to waste" is in fact solar radiation which
as low-level heat (as noted, one of the least useful forms of energy for
technological purposes) keeps the earth at a comfortable temperature for us
humans. This suggests to me that producing orders of magnitude
more energy by any method other than solar will upset our applecart. It is
my understanding that the earth currently radiates a significant amount of
heat into space from its night side; if we start releasing waste heat at a
much greater rate than we now are I would expect that the average temperature
would increase until a new equilibrium between generation and radiation was
reached. I don't have the data to figure the relationship between heat
generated and equilibrium temperature, but I would expect to see a significant
effect if we actually started releasing heat at ten or a hundred times the
current rate; the best sources I've seen indicate that it would only take a
small increase in the average temperature to (for instance) release a lot
of water from the Antarctic icecap.
-------
∂29-Nov-80 2012 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas) 2nd Law (OF THERMODYNAMICS!) etc.
Date: 29 NOV 1980 2307-EST
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Subject: 2nd Law (OF THERMODYNAMICS!) etc.
To: JGA at MIT-MC
CC: ENERGY at MIT-MC
JGA@MIT-MC 11/29/80 14:30:33 Re: 2nd Law (OF THERMODYNAMICS!) etc.
I don't understand your reply at all. How did galaxies get into it?
The percentages I was quoting were mankind's energy generation as a
fraction of the sun's energy hitting the earth. I used this figure to
indicate the earth's present insensitivity to our small disturbances
of it's thermodynamic equilibrium.
With virtually unlimited source of electrical energy or any other "high
temperature" energy, a power consuming device can be made so as not
to pollute the biosphere with its "waste heat" any. It's quite simple.
You allocate some of your electricity for running a heat pump (refrigerator)
that pumps the waste heat back out into deep space. In winter you run
the heat pump slower so some of the waste heat enters the biosphere, in
summer you run it faster and the biosphere is refrigerated.
But a black body is a black body - and the energy we "waste" here on
earth does NOT immediately go the same way as your 99.999...% rattling
around in space. It goes into our biosphere. It is then radiated
into space (on the night-time side mainly) from the earth. There is
***** **
no other way of getting rid of waste heat because by definition it's
** ***** *** ** ******* *** ** ***** ****
in equilibrium with its surroundings - entropy has been maximized.
So if we waste more energy here on earth, the earth's temperature has
got to increase.
** Incorrect, see answer to preceding paragraph. If we were in equilibrium
** we'd all be dead. We need a dynamic flow of energy to survive, and if
** that flow is big enough we can use some of it for solving the problem
** of waste heat.
∂29-Nov-80 2116 Robert Elton Maas <REM at MIT-MC> 2nd law etc.
Date: 29 November 1980 23:46-EST
From: Robert Elton Maas <REM at MIT-MC>
Subject: 2nd law etc.
To: HITCHCOCK at CCA-TENEX
cc: ENERGY at MIT-MC
From: HITCHCOCK at CCA (Chip Hitchcock)
It seems to me that your remarks about 9...% ignore one important
factor; most of the energy that is "going to waste" is in fact solar
radiation which as low-level heat (as noted, one of the least useful
forms of energy for technological purposes) keeps the earth at a
comfortable temperature for us humans.
Where did you ever hear such a blatant misconception??
While the density of solar radiation is such that if you simply absorb
it into a black body it will be degraded into 300-degree-kelvin heat,
the radiation temperature of the distribution of photons is something
like 4000 degrees kelvin. If you use a device like a photovoltaic cell
or a green plant, which operates directly off the individual photons
instead of first degrading the energy to heat, or if you use mirrors
to focus the photons into higher density to produce something like
3000 degrees kelvin, you can theoretically get close to 100% of the
energy (over 90%) converted to pure electricity. Certainly what
I propose for solar energy is NOT black-body space heating. That is
a gross waste of the energy. I propose lightweight mirrors of massive
sizes (each perhaps a million miles, total 93*2*pi million miles in
circumference) focusing the energy onto some sort of thermal-powered
electricity generator. The waste heat from that process is radiated
out to deep space an the pure electrical energy is beamed back to
Earth or whereever home will be at that time. -- If anybody ever tells
you that solar energy is a low quality source of energy that can't be
used for anything except low-temperatur space heating, get a cheap
magnifying glass and burn a hole in his face!
P.s. it's possible to get a moderate increase in effectiveness just by
using the greenhouse effect, admitting the photons the sun likes to
radiate (yellow, red, and near infrared) and blocking re-radiation of
microwaves and deep infrared back into space. Venus does a nice job
of getting about three times our temperature-kelvin (I think it goes
by the fourth power, so it would take 81 times as much energy density
if it didn't have greenhouse helping it) even though it gets only bout
twice or three times as much flux from the sun. But mirrors do a lot
better!
∂30-Nov-80 0030 LLW Information, Insulation, Etc.
To: minsky at MIT-AI
CC: LLW at SU-AI, RAH at SU-AI, JMC at SU-AI,
hans.moravec at CMU-10A, forward at USC-ECL
Dear Marvin:
You're far more correct than you suspected--this must be your lucky week!
You're even right about the last basic paper on insulation being written
in the last century (by a guy named Max Planck, writing on vacuum
thermodynamics and related topics), though interesting postscripts were
added early in this century (by a guy named Albert Einstein, writing on
quantized harmonic oscillators at low temperatures and on the
semi-classical laws of radiation).
On Insulators: You were right about insulators being exponential in
nature--it's only at absurdly high temperatures (e.g., the ones at which
we live) that they happen to go into a conduction regime in which the heat
transport is roughly linear with temperature (and then go into a
power-law-of-temperature regime at even higher temperatures). At
temperatures low enough that quantum effects dominate, oscillators not
only vibrate more slowly (giving rise to the time stretch-out which you
correctly intuited), but interact with each other effectively more weakly
(as the energy of their vibration becomes ever smaller than the lattice
energies), thus passing a quantum of excitation--e.g., heat--a standard
distance down the bucket brigade only after ever more time has elapsed.
For instance, you can literally chill `noise' into traps--slightly lower
energy locations in your lattice--at sufficiently low temperatures, and then
pump it preferentially out of them. The continuum picture of heat
transport, of Johnson noise, etc. becomes arbitrarily misleading when all
oscillator energies become large compared to kT.
Thoroughly chilled quantum oscillators not only conduct heat exponentially
more poorly, but radiate it similarly. Thus super-insulation--stacks of
`fluffed' aluminized Mylar foils with high vacuum loaded in between the
foils--becomes exponentially effective at low temperatures; each sheet
drops the temperature between inside and outside by a factor which becomes
ever larger as the temperature continues to drop. Another way of looking
at this is to note that the emissivity of the surface (in the
Stefan-Boltzmann Law sense) drops exponentially with temperature once kT
becomes small compared to the characteristic excitation energy of the
oscillators on the foil's surface; a quantum of excitation can't find an
oscillator able to absorb it and then to radiatively fling it across the
intervening vacuum to the next foil--it just doesn't have the minimum
fare. (The foils touch in sufficently few places that the conduction
through them is negligible compared to thermal radiation transport across
them.)
You can thus `protect' your environment for a thermodynamic operating cost
which can be made as small as you wish (after a start-up cost to get the
whole mess cooled down to operating conditions). The thermodynamic cost
of information storage thus can be made as small per bit-second as
desired.
On Transmission Lines: Corresponding to Hans' intuition that information
storage and retrieval thermodynamic costs should be related, I see no
limit to lowering the thermodynamic cost of transmitting information to as
low levels as one wishes. One need merely super-insulate and
appropriately cool a Type I superconducting pipe, and then use it to
transport microwaves, in order to get an information transmission line as
lossless and noise-free as one pleases, as the gain in both is exponential
with decreasing temperature. (Of course, the `density' of transmitted
information must be kept below a field level coresponding to the critical
field of the superconductor and a frequency corresponding to the Cooper
pair de-binding energy, but neither of these is a significant limitation.)
On Refrigeration: *If* the universe is really pervaded by 3 degree blackbody
radiation, then it is necessary to run a heat pump against this rejection
temperature to take any information storage/retrieval unit below this
temperature. Doing so is at least hyperbolically costly as the temperature
decreases, due to a corollary of the Second Law of Thermodynamics; if heat
pumping efficiency is itself temperature-dependent, the situation becomes
even less pleasant. However, modern technology, crude though it may be
in this area, has already succeeded in cooling significant volumes to
microdegree temperatures (e.g., through isotopic dilution refrigerators),
and there seems no limit in principle to use of this or many similar,
classical techniques; the time scales on which they will advance depends
only on the emphasis placed on progress in these areas.
The bottom line is that, since information-related gains are in principle
exponential in decreasing temperature, while the work which theoretically
must be done to get to these temperatures is only hyperbolic, the way to
win (in principle) is to merely drive to as low a temperature as is needed
for your application to work as well as you require. The state-of-the-art
is already good enough to store huge multiples of human knowledge for huge
multiples of the age of the universe without losing a single bit!
A truly excellent and thought-provoking conceptual article on physics at
very low temperatures was published more than 8 months but less than about
a year and a half ago (I would guess July 1979, if pressed) by Freeman
Dyson of the Institute for Advanced Studies in *Reviews of Modern
Physics,* one of the major American Physical Society journals; it had some
sexy title like `Physics At The End Of Time.' I strongly recommend it for
background in this area.
Lowell
P.S. It's too bad you squandered your talents in AI--you seem to have the
makings of a far more respectable critter, namely a physicist!
∂30-Nov-80 0210 POURNE@MIT-MC net conferencing
From: POURNE@MIT-MC
Date: 11/30/80 05:07:53
Subject: net conferencing
POURNE@MIT-MC 11/30/80 05:07:53 Re: net conferencing
To: JMC at MIT-MC
Following was sent in reply to MINSKY suggestion that
the major conferencing expenses will be telephone. It is worth
your attention in my judgment, especially the last couple of
paragraphs. I'd appreciate your comments.
POURNE@MIT-MC 11/30/80 04:06:04 Re: Netting conferences etc.
Not even phone bills, since most of those we'd want on the
advisory group live near enough to an installation with a TIP;
in my case, for example, I pay $8.00 (eight dollars) a month for
"extended dialing area" rights, and my calls to either the USC
or RAND TIPs are "free".
Some of the people will probably be wanting to know the
best terminal to use; my guess at the moment is that the H-89 is
pretty good, since it can be told how to download files from the
net to its disk, and can print hard copy at home (if you also
buy a printer).
How is the keyboard? How many keys, and is it laid out
conveniently? I used that H-89 of Vic's at Pajaro Dunes, but I
fear I have forgotten whatever I learned about it; I do recall
that I was able to write papers on it pretty fast, even with
Word-Star, an editor I don't much care for.
Of course nothing may happen here; but The Word I am
getting is that the advisory council is a well-liked idea, and
probably will be adopted. Depends on who is the new NASA
administrator as to exactly who is on the advisory group, but I
may well be, and if I am then you probably are.
I also thought highly of Smelt, and Pierce is a good rep
of the JPL view (which ought to be represented). I'd probably
try for a Cal Tech grad student getting a fellowship out of it
(there's a chance they'll put me on at Cal Tech as an adjunct,
we will see about that) and I'd think you might try for
something similar for an MIT type (who could maintain the
computer communications, etc.) None of this is real money,
since it can all fold into grants that would probably be made
anyway. I can even get some private seed money given.
There is a commercial aspect here: I think that the
development of computer support for conferences like the Pajaro
Dunes thing, complete with protocols, hardware prototypes,
instructions, etc., probably has ENORMOUS commercial potential.
Unfortunately, my interest is in seeing it happen, not in making
money from it.
Any thoughts along those lines, or should I try to
interest some venture capital people? If I do get some capital
people involved, have you grad students who might want a part of
the action? (At least jobs working on it?)
JEP
∂01-Dec-80 1115 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Dr. Colvin, of National Bureauu of Standards, called. Will be in building
this afternoon and will stop by to see you.
∂01-Dec-80 1144 REG Another meeting
To: "@CFPLAN.DIS[CSD,REG]" at SU-AI
of the Computer Facilities Planning committee.
Wednesday, December 3, at 3:15 in room 220
∂01-Dec-80 1334 CSD.BERLIN at SU-SCORE Course Evaluations
Date: 1 Dec 1980 1333-PST
From: CSD.BERLIN at SU-SCORE
Subject: Course Evaluations
To: csd.dietterich at SU-SCORE, csd.jock at SU-SCORE, csd.ydens at SU-SCORE,
csd.herriot at SU-SCORE, rwf at SU-SCORE, csd.haiman at SU-SCORE,
csd.griffiths at SU-SCORE, csd.dbrown at SU-SCORE, csl.sun.jfw at SU-SCORE,
csd.oliger at SU-SCORE, csl.bkr at SU-SCORE, csd.ullman at SU-SCORE,
csd.yao at SU-SCORE, csd.manna at SU-SCORE, csd.knuth at SU-SCORE,
mccarthy at SU-SCORE, csl.crc.ejm at SU-SCORE, csd.binford at SU-SCORE,
or.dantzig at SU-SCORE, csd.schreiber at SU-SCORE, csd.lee at SU-SCORE,
csl.m.rbl at SU-SCORE, icl.hgl at SU-SCORE, csl.lab.brown at SU-SCORE,
csd.pratt at SU-SCORE
lyCould you please set aside the final 10 to 15 minutes of your class(es)
on Wed. or Thurs. (as the case may be) for Course Evaluations. Some
student will be there with the forms for the class members to fill out.
If this particular time is inconvenient, please let me know. Otherwise
I shall assume that everything is settled.
Danny Berlin
Course Evaluation Committee
-------
∂01-Dec-80 1400 JMC*
Baran about Pournelle's desire for teleconferencing
∂01-Dec-80 1400 JMC*
Hewitt wants to teach concurrent systems next fall
∂01-Dec-80 1633 SOL via MIT-TIP crisis communicatons
It looks like FEMA will be our initial sponsor for the
project. Just a small start, but at least a start. Did I send
you the FEMA proposl made in November? It was quite
short.
richard
I don't think so.
∂02-Dec-80 0126 Jim McGrath <JPM at SU-AI> Nuclear Health Hazards
Date: 02 Dec 1980 0113-PST
From: Jim McGrath <JPM at SU-AI>
Subject: Nuclear Health Hazards
To: energy at MIT-MC
I've just finished a very interesting book, THE HEALTH HAZARDS OF NOT GOING
NUCLEAR by Peter Beckmann (editor of Access to Energy). Although his
writing style was uneven (sometimes his jokes were very good, but often
he spent too much time pounding away at points he had made 10 pages ago),
his conclusion was interesting: that of all the proven energy systems
now available (coal, oil, gas, hydor, nuclear), nuclear is by far the
safest.
I am willing to buy his argument, since his facts seem convincing. The
problem is, they only seem convincing. Many facts are not well documented,
so I cannot easily tell if he is on the level. Prehaps some of you know
of the book or the author's reputation for accuracy?
On the same topic, does his newsletter Access to Energy provide good
information? If so, is it available in machine readable form? And, if
anyone knows Dr Beckmann personally, would he object if the information
was re broadcast? (I think he is primarily interested with getting
his facts and views out, so I do not think he would be).
Jim
∂02-Dec-80 0355 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #153
Date: 2 DEC 1980 0652-EST
From: DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II)
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #153
To: HUMAN-NETS at MIT-AI
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Tuesday, 2 Dec 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 153
Today's Topics:
Security - Electronic Fraud, Elections - Impact of Information
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 1 Dec 1980 (Monday) 0814-EDT
From: DREIFU at WHARTON (Henry Dreifus)
Subject: Electronic Fraud.
Are we who we say we are? Just how simple is it for one 'hacker'
to assume the name, and the mailbox and the sending priveleges of
another? As we approach the WORLDnet concept, there are going to
be problems of this sort cropping up. The world community is not
an accademic pool. Stealing passwords, is somewhat equivalent to
taking another's banking card, with some idea what his password
was. The problem is deeper in this case, as electronic computers
are more malleable, and though the problem is there, perhaps in
this digest we might bring to light some of the issues and
potential solutions.
/Hank
------------------------------
Date: 1 December 1980 0925-EST (Monday)
From: Richard H. Gumpertz <Rick.Gumpertz at CMU-10A>
It seems to me that the problem is not the intelligence level of
the voter but rather the quality of the information by which he
must decide! Except for a few random slippages, most of what one
hears from presidential candidates (the major ones anyway) is
useless rhetoric. About the only basis upon which one CAN decide
is one's impression of the candidates' personalities. Perhaps we
should be looking for ways to increase the signal-to-noise ratio
of campaigns.
Richard H. Gumpertz
------------------------------
Date: 1 Dec 1980 18:03 PST
From: Reed.ES at PARC-MAXC
I would like to know Brian Lloyd's algorithm for determining who
is and who is not capable of "making intelligent decisions". This
rather nebulous ability has been part of segregationist ideas ever
since the Civil War. Blacks were denied the vote in many Southern
states because they couldn't pass a literacy test. This test did
not prove blacks incapable of making intellegent decisions. It did
prove that blacks were not given the same educational opportunities
necessary to the decision process as whites. Are you, Brian Lloyd,
prepared to define a test that is free enough of bias as to
recognize the ability "to make intelligent decisions" regardless
of the background of the testee? Perhaps you should study the
literature on intelligence tests, and the studies of intelligence
done by innumerable psychologists in the last century to satisfy
yourself that this is not the simplest of tasks. I for one will not
accept a test designed by Nobel Prize winner William Shockley, in
spite of the fact that I am very much a WASP in my racial origins.
I doubt if you could get any kind of agreement whatsoever on such
a test. Sooner or later you have a situation where some people will
be excluded unjustly from the decision making process.
Before you define such a test, you must define what an intelligent
decision is and what is necessary in order that a person may make
one. If you can do that, then you are a better man than the many of
us others who have pondered the question over the past century. You
might even get a Nobel Prize.
-- Larry --
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂02-Dec-80 0503 david at UTEXAS-11 Nuclear plant energy cost
Date: 2 Dec 1980 at 0651-CST
From: david at UTEXAS-11
Subject: Nuclear plant energy cost
To: energy at mit-mc
From an article on conservation in today's "The Daily Texan".
"Stanford Ovshinsky, the famous solar-energy scientist,
has calculated it will take a nuclear plant 22.5 years
to produce the same amount of energy it took to build."
-------
Years to pay back energy cost of nuclear plant
I was hoping someone had the references on this. The claim
that it is some large number of years has been often made and often
refuted. I think the last estimate I read from a source I regard
as respectable was something like three years. 22.5 years is implausible
no matter how you look at it, because a thousand megawatt plant at sixty
percent duty factor produces 5x10**9 kwh per year at say $.01 per kwh
makes about $50 million per year. In 22.5 years that would be over
a billion dollars. What plants cost varies widely depending on how
much delay and rework there is in the construction, but some have
come in for about a billion dollars. But energy is only a small part
of the cost of nuclear plant taking into account energy going into
materials. The over-runs are almost all labor cost. I apologize for
lack of detail, since I know that others have done this more carefully.
∂02-Dec-80 1052 Kanerva@SUMEX-AIM DEC's offer
Date: 2 Dec 1980 1021-PST
From: Kanerva@SUMEX-AIM
Subject: DEC's offer
To: JMC@SAIL
DEC offered a 25% discount on a text-machine configuration of about
$1 million. This is 15% short of what Jon Sandelin had assumed
in his budget calculations (in arriving at the $300/month charge).
I don't know yet what this 15% discrepency means by way of how
interested the University vice-presidents will be in the machine
nor what Jon Sandelin will try to do to make up for the difference.
Thanks for coming to the meeting week ago Monday and speaking about
your concerns. Keep hoping.
- Pentti
-------
∂02-Dec-80 1129 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE IBM funds
Date: 2 Dec 1980 1124-PST
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Subject: IBM funds
To: jmc at SU-AI
I got another request, from Paul Martin, to pay for travel to his final
exam. The request was retroactive, contrary to the faculty's explicit
directions, so i have not paid it. However, it occurs to me that a good
use for the IBM funds would be to set up a program to bring such people
to campus. Do you have any idea what that would cost us this year, i.e.,
how many students have such people on their committees and would need
support to bring them?
Also, do you have any other suggestions regarding the use of this year's
money, along the lines of theorem proving facilities that we talked about
informally?
-------
∂02-Dec-80 1134 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Stan called from SRI. Some people there mentioned that the Kant lectures
may conflict with the seminar. He wonders what you think - if seminar
should be postponed.
∂02-Dec-80 1602 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) Colloq. Winter Quarter
Date: 2 Dec 1980 1556-PST
From: CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai)
Subject: Colloq. Winter Quarter
To: JMC at SU-AI
I just received a letter from Prof. Hoffmann. He will speak on
January 20. Therefore, I have scheduled you for January 27.
Please send the title of your talk so Sue can send it to Campus
Reports.
Carolyn
-------
∂02-Dec-80 2135 RWG at MIT-MC (Bill Gosper)
Date: 3 DEC 1980 0029-EST
From: RWG at MIT-MC (Bill Gosper)
To: ENERGY at MIT-MC
I'll be visiting CalTech a few of days, so I'll get in some licks and
queries now to make up for my absence.
Dreifu: the antinukes say 10↑5 yrs, the pronukes say the waste is less
dangerous than the uranium ore in < 600yrs, and less dangerous than some
Hg ores in 200yrs. Can you or anyone resolve this discrepancy? Also,
nuking a bunch of buried, vitrified or ceramicized waste is probably an
inefficient way to be nasty, especially if it's far from populations. You
wouldn't see much difference from nice, unnasty CLEAN bombs, let alone
intentionally dirty (e.g. cobalt) bombs.
On the environmental threat of coal exploitation to the Bryce Canyon area of
southern Utah: why can't they use those slurry pipes (or new ones alongside)
to recycle their precious water WITH INTEREST? That would recompense some of
the damage. Just think, 3 GW, mostly for Jerry Brownout's California, where
his State Energy Commission, Coastal Commission, and Air Resources Board have
stifled energy projects on every front, and barrage us constantly with
press releases about how we don't need any more power plants, Santa Barbara
oil, etc. (Jerry also tells us that we invite terrorism by driving to ski
resorts while the Third World starves for oil, while at the same time outlawing
or obstructing both coal and nuclear powerplants statewide.)
Anti-SPS from the pronukes: Teller says the same thing as O'keefe: that
SPS is bullshit, never hoping to come within a factor of 50 of competitiveness.
I blew a chance to pin Teller down on this. Next time one of these guys emits
such an attack, twist his arm and demand substantiation! Gerard K. Oneill(sp?)
does the same thing in reverse. He took three gratuitous swipes at nuclear
energy in a talk I attended. Let's cut this out! We need energy in all forms.
The culture could die if the Earth is too weak to send out colonies...
david: as i probably said once before, extrapolating uranium miners' lung
cancer by the linear hypothesis, doubling the national average home air
turnover period (from 1 hr to 2) will ANNUALLY add 20,000 radiation induced
lung cancer fatalities to the national toll. The probability that a meltdown
will kill anyone is, by contrast, estimated at 1%, and killing thousands is
about as likely as a refinery fire doing the same thing (were there as many
meltdowns as refinery fires). And radiation is not the worst part of air
pollution.
Petr Beckmann and Access to Energy: he makes an honest and intense effort to
be strictly accurate, and has corrected any errors that are pointed out to him.
This must be quite a struggle, because he gets pretty impassioned. I'd like
the newsletter better with a little less (right wing) politics, but the news
(and reference!) and humor content make it worthwhile. I wouldn't expect him
to approve network redistribution if there is any chance of cutting into his
paid subscriptions, since he operates on a shoestring ("Holiday Greetings from
each and every member of our staff--and from his dog, too!").
∂03-Dec-80 0156 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 3 DEC 1980 0457-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: JMC at SU-AI
I sure hope you're right on (1) the low social cost of sane
reactor laws, and (2) the softness of the liberal rejecton of
nuclear power.
But I doubt if you are, although no one would be more
pleased to see that your view is the correct one.
∂03-Dec-80 0911 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) Fifth Floor
Date: 3 Dec 1980 0909-PST
From: CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai)
Subject: Fifth Floor
To: CSD-Faculty:
cc: CSD.Tajnai at SU-SCORE
The distribution lists have been a little flakey lately, so I'm resending
this memo.
The Fire Marshall has asked that we clear the aisles in the fifth floor
so it can pass inspection. Also, excess paper and boxes are to be thrown
out.
Another issue is the old A.I. Lab Technical Reports have not been unpacked
and inventoried because of a lack of access to them. It is important that
this be done so we can fill orders.
The responsibility has been given to me to tackle this problem.
I ask your assistance and cooperation in the following ways:
1. If any of your belongings can be sent to salvage, let me know.
2. If any of your old technical journals can be donated to the
library, let me know. I will take care of having them
delivered to the library and you will receive a tax
deductible receipt for your gift.
3. No personal belongings can be stored on the fifth floor.
Magazines that are not technical journals must be removed.
4. Your items must be labeled: boxes, file cabinets, book shelves.
I will be on vacation next week, so my target date is Dec. 15 to have plant
services come to help me clear out the excess. Please check on your
possessions. Dot, Dawn, or I will be happy to go to the fifth floor with you
for a tour of the disaster.
p.s. Bob Floyd donated the twin bed to worthy students. I also gave them
the broken table.
Carolyn
-------
-------
∂03-Dec-80 1131 RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
Date: 3 DEC 1980 1432-EST
From: RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
To: jmc at SU-AI
I am stuck in LA due to bad weater and will be for a couple
of days. I'm almost always reachable at (213)483-8629
or (213) 413-4845 so if you would like to have a discussion
with me, just call.
∂03-Dec-80 1211 RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
Date: 3 DEC 1980 1453-EST
From: RMS at MIT-AI (Richard M. Stallman)
To: jmc at SU-AI
I have just finished Kripke7s paper "A Puzzle about Belief"
and I think I see part of the solution.
Are you interested in this?
I don't know the Kripke paper.
∂03-Dec-80 1737 RMS@MIT-AI
From: RMS@MIT-AI
Date: 12/03/80 19:38:02
RMS@MIT-AI 12/03/80 19:38:02
To: energy at MIT-MC
Given the problems with cogeneration serving existing
users of hat, is it feasible nevertheles to build new
heat-user near existing electric plants?
I'd be interested in hearing the feasibility of this for
specific kinds of heat users such as greenhouses,
factories, etc. Residences are probaly ruled out
since people won't want to live right next to any sort
of power plant.
∂03-Dec-80 1751 JPM
To: pourne at MIT-MC, JMC at SU-AI
Jerry and John,
I just sent off a letter to Beckmann requesting a subscription to
Access to Energy and asking his opinion about wider distribution of
his information. Do either of you know if he is on the NET, or
interested in joining? (I also broached this to him)
Jim
∂03-Dec-80 2221 RPG LISP at Stanford
Although I'd like to help Stanford with its long term LISP
problems, I'm afraid of devoting a lot of time and reputation to
that without being able to do anything for my scientific career.
This isn't to say that I'm not interested in exploring ways of
solving both problems, but that I need to have your thoughts on what
the possibilities could be. For instance, would there be provisions for
me hacking the LISP as part of some grander scheme? Or of doing more than
one project, LISP being one of them?
Unless there is some hope on doing something else, I'd prefer CMU.
-rpg-
I'll think a bit, and we'll talk, but some of the initiative would
have to come from you.
∂04-Dec-80 1015 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Susan Newman, CS Editor, Benjamin Cummings, asks that you call her at
9 854 6020.
∂04-Dec-80 1300 JMC*
dicker about article, insurance
∂04-Dec-80 1334 Bob Moore <BMOORE at SRI-KL>
Date: 4 Dec 1980 1324-PST
From: Bob Moore <BMOORE at SRI-KL>
To: JMC at SU-AI
cc: BMOORE at SRI-KL
In-Reply-To: Your message of 4-Dec-80 0158-PST
John,
Next Friday (the 12th) would be fine for us. We can have lunch here
in the International Dining Room. Shall we expect you about 12:00?
--Bob
-------
12th at 12
∂04-Dec-80 1335 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE Baskett
Date: 4 Dec 1980 1325-PST
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Subject: Baskett
To: jmc at SU-AI
There is a movement afoot, actually initiated by Jim Rosse, to get Forest
promoted to full Prof., as part of an effort to get him to return.
What is your feeling about this?
-------
∂05-Dec-80 1307 CSD.SCHREIBER at SU-SCORE First meeting.
Date: 5 Dec 1980 1303-PST
From: CSD.SCHREIBER at SU-SCORE
Subject: First meeting.
To: csd.ossher at SU-SCORE, jeb at SU-AI, csd.gischer at SU-SCORE,
csd.clarkson at SU-SCORE, jmc at SU-AI, csd.yao at SU-SCORE,
csd.rwf at SU-SCORE, csl.lantz at SU-SCORE, csd.schreiber at SU-SCORE,
als at SU-AI
CHANGE OF MEETING TIME.
No representative of csl will be able to come on Mon. 15 Dec.
Therefore, I'd like to meet on Thursday, 18 Dec. at 10:00 AM
in room 301 MJH. Any problem with this time?
Rob
---
-------
∂05-Dec-80 1825 FWH PV+A Seminar
To: "@SEM.DIS[SEM,VER]" at SU-AI
There will be no PROGRAM VERIFICATION AND ANALYSIS SEMINAR on
Tuesday, Dec. 9. The next seminar is on Dec. 16, with
Nori Suzuki, XEROX Palo Alto Research Center, talking on
"Inferring Types in Smalltalk". An abstract for this talk will
be mailed out next week.
∂05-Dec-80 1846 REM
∂05-Dec-80 1033 JMC
The California city is Pittsburg.
I used to think they were both spelled that way, but have been
informed that Pennsylvania city had an H, or that it didn't matter,
so randomly added H to California city too. Thanks for correction.
∂06-Dec-80 0143 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Date: 6 DEC 1980 0445-EST
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
To: JMC at SU-AI
I've heard that hydroelectric supplies or could supply about 10%.
Recently it was claimed that solar ponds could supply 10%. I've
heard reports over the years that recycling organic wastes such
as feedlot dung, wood residue (the part not suitable for paper),
city garbage, etc. could supply 10% or more. I'd like to hear
any rebuttals to those claims and estimates of the contributions
from other sources (the above are by 2000 I think, if we start
developing them now).
∂06-Dec-80 1515 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Date: 6 DEC 1980 1720-EST
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
To: JMC at SU-AI
I'm still not sure what you meant, but I think I've narrowed it down
to two major candidates:
(1) The person elected won't be prominent, but will be among the crowd
who associates with the prominent. Thus they will be friends of the
following people: <list of names>
(2) The person elected won't be prominent, and just for reference here
are who I consider to be the prominent since they might win despite
my prediction that they won't: <list of names>
The person selected mightn't have been prominent at all. However, among
the present politically prominent people, Bush, Mondale, Haig, etc. would
have had a better chance of being selected by a body that interviewed
candidates than they did under the present system.
∂07-Dec-80 0617 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Date: 7 DEC 1980 0920-EST
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
To: JMC at SU-AI
That's an ingeneous idea, but unfortunately unless the plastic is rather
thick (a lot thicker than common grocery store fresh-vegetable bags)
it'll probably melt or weaken to the point of tearing gaping holes
due to heat of perhaps 140 degrees F that the human can survive for a few
seconds with only 2nd degree burns but the plastic can't survive even
that brief time.
∂07-Dec-80 1122 BYY logout for barwise
I seem to be logged in on two jobs and unable to enter them to log out.
Every time someone calls, my tie to computer is broken, I think.
Any suggestions on how I can exit from jobs 5 and 13? Does it matter?
Jon.
∂07-Dec-80 1159 BYY kill 13
it worked. thanks, jon
∂07-Dec-80 1409 BYY I see from login that I have a message from
CC: mccarthy
SYS but cannot retrieve it with rcv . Jon
∂07-Dec-80 2029 PAM
John.. I'd hate to have laundry bag melt onto my face or even worse flash
into flame. How much radiant heat can they take? If not much is the
answer, then some version of "Brown'n Bags" for oven use might be
better..Paul
∂07-Dec-80 2104 Solomon at MIT-Multics (Richard Jay Solomon) picture
Date: 8 December 1980 00:04 est
From: Solomon at MIT-Multics (Richard Jay Solomon)
Subject: picture
Sender: Solomon.Datanet at MIT-Multics
To: JMC at SU-AI
interesting article inNY Times today. Should excite people. After all,
if it is not inthe Times it hadn't exisited before.
Liked your photo.
∂07-Dec-80 2105 Solomon at MIT-Multics (Richard Jay Solomon) crisis communications
Date: 8 December 1980 00:06 est
From: Solomon at MIT-Multics (Richard Jay Solomon)
Subject: crisis communications
Sender: Solomon.Datanet at MIT-Multics
To: JMC at SU-AI
A PROPOSAL FOR
AN EXPLORATORY STUDY OF
FEMA'S COMMUNICATIONS PROBLEMS IN
A NATIONAL CRISIS
Submitted to the
Federal Emergency Management Agency
by the
Research Program on Communications Policy
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
11 November 1980 !
Communications in a National Crisis Page 1
Proposal for an exploratory study -- 11 November 1980
INTRODUCTION
This is a proposal for an initial exploratory study of the place
of crisis communications in the role and mission of the Federal
Emergency Management Agency.
In the course of discussion with the agency's officials of some
research ideas propounded by the Research Program on
Communications Policy (1) concerning communications in a crisis,
it became increasingly clear that there were some prior questions
about how and in what respects the crisis communications issues
being discussed affected or were affected by FEMA's specific
role. Among the issues raised were FEMA's own needs for
communications facilities to be used in a crisis, and the needs
of the public that FEMA is serving for communications facilities
in such crises as an oil cut-off, a major earthquake, or a
long-pending nuclear threat. We discussed how far present
facilities would serve to meet such needs, and what government
policies would serve to improve use of those facilities or reduce
unnecessary demands upon them.
All these matters are of some relation to FEMA, but they are also
of relevance to other government agencies with communications
missions. Therefore, before considering having study panels,
summer studies, or research studies by FEMA, it would be appro-
priate to examine how some of the major issues interact with
FEMA's specific tasks in relation to the tasks assigned also to
other organizations. A preliminary study to explore those
matters is proposed herein.
←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←←
(1) See "Draft Proposal for A Study of Telecommunications in a
National Crisis," 11 August 1980.
MIT Research Program on Communications Policy !
Communications in a National Crisis Page 2
Proposal for an exploratory study -- 11 November 1980
PROPOSAL
By Jan. 1, 1981, the MIT Research Program on Communications Poli-
cy would submit a statement of issues and problems concerning
crisis communications that bear upon FEMA roles. It would also
spell out related organizational roles.
This would be discussed with FEMA staffs and by Feb. 15, 1981 a
revised, expanded, and semi-final report would be submitted for
further comments and discussion. The study would terminate with
a final revised report due April 1.
The research would be carried out by Professor Ithiel de Sola
Pool (Principal Investigator) and Mr. Richard J. Solomon, who
would draw on advice from MIT faculty and other experts of the
sort listed in our previous documents.
SCOPE OF RESEARCH
PD/NSC 53 (15 Nov. 1980) specifically states that:
The Federal Emergency Management Agency, in coor-
dination with the National Communications System,
shall plan for emergency use of industry private
line communications that have significant
capabilities (eg., pipeline, railroad, and
airline).
and also mandates that:
To the maximum extent feasible, interstate common
carrier networks, including specialized common
carriers and domestic satellite carriers, should
be interconnected and capable of interoperation in
emergencies at breakout points outside of likely
target areas.
and:
Functionally similar government telecommunications
networks shall be capable of interchange of traf-
fic in emergencies.
FEMA has responsiblity for functions of communications, command
and control (3C) to assure continuity of government (COG) during
a national or regional emergency. Continuity of government and
of society may be considered as including:
MIT Research Program on Communications Policy !
Communications in a National Crisis Page 3
Proposal for an exploratory study -- 11 November 1980
1) the ability of the chief executive to guide national
developments;
2) the capability of federal, regional, and local authorities
to effectively communicate with each other in order to perform
whatever roles are necessary in managing and alleviating a cri-
sis; and,
3) maintenance of communications for the general public, al-
beit at a reduced or altered level, to permit the government to
respond to a crisis without resort to extreme measures which
would prove countereffective. At a minimum, the industrial pro-
ductivity of the nation and the ability of the populace to react
in an orderly manner so as not to waste precious resources would
be the goals of effective communications.
To explore whether FEMA's present structure is sufficient to per-
mit it to carry out its 3C mission and to assure continuity of
government during an emergency we propose that the following
tasks be carried out:
Tλ←←λa←λs←λk 1λ←. While continuity of government in a post-nuclear environ-
ment has been the subject of substantial attention, an under-
standing of the problem requires attention also to much simpler
and more likely lesser crisis situations. To help in understand-
ing the implications of FEMA's responsiblity for COG, scenarios
for several types of emergencies will be described with an indi-
cation of where 3C activities are vital. Among the types of
emergencies reviewed will be: a severe oil cutoff, a major earth-
quake in California, and a prolonged pre-nuclear threat situa-
tion. Each of these situations present differing parameters
placing demands upon communications, but, in general, they repre-
sent diverse points on the gamut of possibilities for which ef-
fective preparedness is conceivable.
Tλ←←λa←λs←λk 2λ←. In the light of the outlined 3C functions from task 1,
the next task will be to prepare a matrix delineating the goals
of respective agencies for each of the crisis scenarios in order
to illustrate the gaps and overlaps in function with regard to
crisis communications. Among the organizations involved are:
FEMA, NSC, GSA, NCS, DCA, IRAC, FCC, and NTIA. The role of the
Office of Defense Resources, to be established under FEMA in a
national emergency will be an important factor in this task.
MIT Research Program on Communications Policy !
Communications in a National Crisis Page 4
Proposal for an exploratory study -- 11 November 1980
Tλ←←λa←λs←λk 3λ←. Problems which may surface from the matrix exercise will
be described as a third task. For example, problems may arise
from the current process of deregulation of common carriers, even
though in an emergency coordination may be mandated. There may
be gaps created in a national emergency plan due to lack of ex-
plicit directives for action to the appropriate agencies. In
particular, the potential conflict between FEMA's mandate and its
authority and resources in telecommunications areas will be
explored. A careful distinction will be made between FEMA's and
other agencies' civil roles in national disaster planning and re-
covery, and military roles.
Tλ←←λa←λs←λk 4λ←. In suggesting alternative solutions for some of the
problems outlined in task 3, consideration will be given to the
potentials of advanced telecommunications systems expected to be
available within the decade. A focus of this task will be to de-
scribe possible applications of these new technologies for FEMA's
own needs for improved communications. This would cover such
areas as:
a) application of advanced computer-communications for online
teleconferencing, access to continually updated databases such as
news, weather, and other logistical information, priority and
failure-soft access to key agencies and officials in various
zones, and automated alerting and warning networks.
b) use of evolving broadband systems -- satellites, cable
television, and intercity trunks -- for innovative conferencing,
public information (such as allocation of energy or other scarce
resources in lieu of, or supplemental to rationing), and as a re-
placement for critical areas of infrastructure which may be
disabled during a crisis, such as transport, mails, and conven-
tional telephone networks.
c) interface with existing systems (telephone, broadcast, and
various emergency radio and private-line networks) with a view to
providing cost-effective quick fixes during evolving crises, and
for select time-frames in the near future to create an effective
level of preparedness.
Tλ←←λa←λs←λk 5λ←. Finally, the report will identify needs for further re-
search in more depth along the lines outined in tasks 1-4 and in
our broader proposal submitted this summer. These possibilities
will include:
a) a summer study among a select number of professionals to
explore problems and solutions;
MIT Research Program on Communications Policy !
Communications in a National Crisis Page 5
Proposal for an exploratory study -- 11 November 1980
b) reorganization to be better prepared for the communication
needs of a national emergency; and,
c) more effective telecommunications coordination.
MIT Research Program on Communications Policy !
∂07-Dec-80 2214 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) Turn off electric lamps when not needed
Date: 8 DEC 1980 0113-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: Turn off electric lamps when not needed
To: ENERGY at MIT-MC, david at UTEXAS-11
Maybe. I find it hard to believe. When we did a study for
Boeing in 1962 (we being the Human factors and Reliability Unit)
we found that about 30 minutes was the breakeven time for
incandescents and an hour for flourescents. That was to
minimize COST, given then prices of energy and bulbs AND
maintenance personnel. if replacement labor costs are FREE then
of course the model would change.
But don't believe it when they tell you that turning
incandescents on and off has nothing to do with their lifetimes;
haven't you noticed that the damned things almost never burn out
when on, but blow when turned on from cold start?
∂07-Dec-80 2225 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) SPS automatic aiming
Date: 8 DEC 1980 0121-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: SPS automatic aiming
To: HPM at MIT-MC, ENERGY at MIT-MC, KING at RUTGERS
I confess that this analysis requires more of my attention than
I care to give it--which is NOT to say that it isn't important.
One recommendation currently under consideration is to open an
SPS program office at something above $10 million/year is
insurance. Is this "relative motion" aiming problem something
that hasn't been considered by the NASA participants in the SPS
feasibility study? IO have the reports and I could dig out the
answer to that myself, but if someone knows, it would save time.
IE: query: Is this a Show Stopper? I'd be surprised if it
were, but I would very much like to know soonest.
∂07-Dec-80 2231 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) plastic bags
Date: 8 DEC 1980 0124-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: plastic bags
To: JMC at SU-AI
Query:how do you know that the air you fill the bag with isn't
already contaminated with CO ?/
Otherwise it seems a splendid idea and I will add to my
survival kit.
∂08-Dec-80 0024 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 8 DEC 1980 0320-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: HUMAN-NETS at MIT-MC, JMC at SU-AI
John you have re-invented the Athenian "democracy"; a system in
which the legislature (paid for attendence) is chosen by lot
(and from that the officials are chosen). They did find it
necessary to elect the Strategoi which was a board of military
generals; but electing the generals didn't turn out to be much
better than choosing them by lot.
However, having 200 randomly selected citizens choose
the President after hearing rational arguments and debate mugh
be better than what we got after the "reforms" that supposedly
crippled the party "bosses" and "gave the nominating process to
the people"...
The fact is that to be elected you hhave to have some
chance of raising large sums of money; and now that the liberals
have "reformed" the system so that primaries dominate, only
Kennedy has enough without massive support from others. The
liberal reforms had the effect of making it impossible for an
Eisenhower ever to be President. Nowadays you either have money
or have access to large sums...
Doesn't the Athenian system amount to choosing Congress by lot. I
didn't and don't advocate that.
∂08-Dec-80 0130 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 8 DEC 1980 0433-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: JMC at SU-AI
Yeah, Congress and Courts as well. I was being a bit loose
with my definitions.
OK. It would be better if you withdrew or modified your remark to
HUMAN-NETS rather than have me answer it and you agree.
∂08-Dec-80 0140 POURNE@MIT-MC randoms
From: POURNE@MIT-MC
Date: 12/08/80 04:42:32
Subject: randoms
POURNE@MIT-MC 12/08/80 04:42:32 Re: randoms
To: JMC at MIT-MC, HUMAN-NETS at MIT-MC
Actually the Athenians chose the whole bloody show (equivalent
of Congress and Supreme Court) by lot, which is not what JMC had
in mind. I don't recall anyone having a system where a random
sample was chosen, required to deliberate and debate and receive
information, and then simply choose a chief executive.
Aristotle defines elections as a form of aristocracy;
democracy exists only when offices are distributed by lot.
Athenian Assembly notorious for doing such tings as
giving someone a command and expedition in the HOPES that he
would muck it up (thus helping party at expense of the state).
Of course the US Congress would NEVER do any such thing...
∂08-Dec-80 0310 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas) Nuclear power plants vs. Nader's overreactors
Date: 8 DEC 1980 0610-EST
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Subject: Nuclear power plants vs. Nader's overreactors
To: ENERGY at MIT-MC
Instead of beating our heads against the wall trying by word arguments
to convince the "environmentalists" (quote marks to indicate they really
are something else like anti-technologists, not to be confused with
true environmentalists who also exist) that nuclear power plants ought
to be licensed, what if we try a different approach. Instead of trying
in the short run to get more plants, how about adapting an existing plant
such as San Onofre to be a pilot plant for extracting heavy isotopes
(Uranium mostly) from seawater. If it works we could then demonstrate
that Uranium really is a "renewable resource" in the sense that we have
a continuous supply available for millions of years just like we do for
solar energy in its various forms (hydroelectric, biomass, ocean thermal,
photo-voltaic, reflector&boiler, ...) and for geothermal and tidal action.
That would remove one of the philosophical arguments against nuclear energy,
not by an "if we did this" argument but by a demonstrable working operation.
We could also do recycling (reprocessing) of Plutonium in this plant,
showing that also can be done. If such a plant could be made self-sustaining
with respect to fissionable materials, not requiring any Uranium mining to
supply it, might that be the swing vote needed to get things moving again?
Meanwhile let's make sure nothing as silly as Three Mile Island or
Harrisburg ever happens again; it doesn't hurt anyone directly but it
sure costs a lot when a plant goes offline in that way, and it's bad
for the public image.
∂08-Dec-80 1841 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Date: 8 Dec 1980 1746-PST
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
To: JMC at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 8-Dec-80 1637-PST
as I understand it, affirmative action never obligates us to discriminate
against "regular people," in fact, the Bakke decision prohibits us from doing
so in a systematic way, in the absence of a judgement that we have discriminated
in the past. What we are obligated to do is make sure that announcements
of available teaching positions, opportunities for graduate study, etc., are
sent to where the minority candidates are, not just to MIT and CMU.
In fact, the department has been practicing a "poor man's affirmative action,"
admitting minority candidates with lesser qualifications than non-minorities
that we turn down, in order to make it appear that we are doing our job.
Any suggestions gratefully accepted.
-------
Since there aren't enough cases of genuine discrimination to reduce the
alternatives available to qualified women and negroes, Stanford affirmative
action policies merely stir the pot, no matter how they are carried out.
Alas, I have no suggestions worthy of acceptance. I have only the remark
that some years ago we accepted some graduate student applicants far down
in the list of applicants - with results regretted by us and probably by them.
The qualified minority candidates for teaching positions and graduates study
are quite likely to be from CMU and MIT. I hope that Kennedy's new burst
of activity won't cause that to happen again.
∂09-Dec-80 0200 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) Lending the Boss a Helping Hand...
Date: 9 DEC 1980 0500-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: Lending the Boss a Helping Hand...
To: POURNELLE at MIT-MC, MINSKY at MIT-MC, PDL at MIT-MC, JMC at MIT-MC
To: HPM at MIT-MC, RWK at MIT-MC, LEOR at MIT-MC, LAUREN at MIT-MC
To: ELLEN at MIT-MC
It occurs to me that there is amongst us sufficient
talent to install in the White House a miniature of the net for
use by the White House staff. That is: just having RMAIL with
the editor, the system interconnected only within the Executive
Office of the President, could save one hell of a lot of time
and paper and such like; probably enough to be worth doing.
Which means that if written up in sufficiently glowing terms and
presented to the Ramo committee, it could happen.
My guess at costs is under $100,000 for the machine including
disks and a hard-copy device (probably only one of those), and
under $2000 per terminal; there might be some costs of
installing cables and such. The attraction would be a WORKING
SYSTEM which means an operating system and all the system
software would have to be available as a package deal; I have no
feel for the costs of that, although much seems to have been
developed on the net and therefore probably already belongs to
the government. What we particularly don't want is to offer
something available Real Soon Now; we want something we can say
we KNOW works because we have seen it work; it may be
improvable, but this is Good Enough. (In my judgment, "better"
is often the enemy of "good".)
Please correct me if my costs are wildly off; and
someone who knows could help by giving me a decent equipment
list/costing, although that isn't strictly necessary.
Questions sure to be asked would be:
(1) Security. How secure can you make this? If it
connects to the outside, is there any delay loop or filter you
could build in so that someone with high-secrecy access would
have to review what he wrote to go outside the system before it
got sent?
Is there any way of encryption, and is that needed?
(2) System documentaton and ease of learning. I know
about this one, probably more than you others do, as I had to
learn it from scratch.
(3) Equipment availability. I assume you simply buy a
PDP-11 and disk packs and some kind of backup (please not
TAPES!--at least not any with 18-minute gaps...) and that this
can be delivered fairly quickly.
(4) interconnections: physical cables, one presumes; how
complex is this? Needs boosters and amplifiers? Phone lines?
How about across the distance from White House to Old State
(showing my age; oops, Executive Office of president) which is
about 200 yards?
(5) what other features might this have that would make
it attractive?
∂09-Dec-80 0523 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #160
Date: 9 DEC 1980 0812-EST
From: DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II)
Subject: HUMAN-NETS Digest V2 #160
To: HUMAN-NETS at MIT-AI
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Tuesday, 9 Dec 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 160
Today's Topics:
Administrivia - PoliSci Discussion, Speculation - FCC Future,
Computers and the Handicapped - Blind Query & Bell Teleprinters,
Communicating via Network - Telepresence, Escaping from Fire,
Recursive Acronyms
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 8 December 1980 0220-EST (Tuesday)
From: The Moderator <Duffey at MIT-AI>
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA - Political Science Discussion
1. Starting today, our political science discussion is being moved
into a special series of PM editions of HUMAN-NETS Digest.
2. I am currently looking at the idea of spawning a distinct broad
spectrum discussion list on Political Science and related issues.
In order to determine what that would entail, I need to estimate
the number of people interested and their distribution across the
network. Therefore I would like anyone who would probably join a
Political Sciences mailing list to send me a message.
-- RDD
------------------------------
Date: 8 December 1980 10:45 est
From: York at MIT-Multics (William M. York)
Subject: FCC membership
There is an article in today's Boston Globe (Vol 218, No 161) on page
35 titled: "The future of the FCC". In a nutshell, there will be (are)
three or four vacancies opening up on the seven member FCC. These will
most likely all be filled by Regan appointees. (The fourth possible
opening is that of current Commissioner Tyrone Brown, who "may leave
a commission dominated by conservatives")
The rest of the article goes on to speculate on the possible changes
seen by TV viewers in the next few years. Unfortunately, the possi-
bilities are so myriad that it is hard to make good predictions.
The alternatives range from a clamp down in the name of the "Moral
Majority" (?), to the removal of all censorship-type restrictions
in the name of free enterprise.
From the point of view of the networks and the broadcasting industry
in general, such issues as allowing the major networks to enter the
cable franchise industry, allowing the networks to own more than
one station each in a given market, allowing the networks to "sell"
special events (like important football games), and the tightening
or relaxation of censorship restrictions are at stake.
Naturally, as this is a Globe article, all "facts" contained herin
are suspect. It is sort of interesting to speculate however. No
mention is made of Ham, CB, or any other facets of the FCC's sphere
of influence.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Dec 1980 at 1022-CST
From: david at UTEXAS-11
Subject: Blind human-nets recipients
I am curious to know whether there are any or many blind people
on the Human-Nets mailing list.
------------------------------
KLH@MIT-AI 12/09/80 02:48:44 Re: TDD hotlines
The idea of a TDD-to-voice relay center has been around for quite
a while. Here in SF there is DICO, which is supported I believe only
by state & charity funds, which they use to pay their staffers and
their phone bills (which are quite large; they don't pass them on to
the original caller, partly because DICO is usually not within the
local calling area of either party.) In the LA area there is TEL-LINK
which is trying to support itself by charging "subscribers" a fairly
steep per-month fee in return for a fixed number of relay-service
minutes. They're not trying to make money, just break even. There
must certainly be more avenues for exploration, but it's a lot of
work and you'll never get rich.
Which is why the phone company has no intention of ever
furnishing such a service.
------------------------------
Date: 08 Dec 1980 1401-PST
From: Paul Martin <PAM at SU-AI>
Re Robert Kerns suggested meta-telepresence, I like the idea, but he
will find the turn-around a bit long to use a computer mediated link
to Jupiter. Depending on the orbital alignment, he can expect the
light-lag to range from bad to worse. Even working on Mercury at
optimal alignment will take (2*93E6 miles)/186E3 miles/sec =~= 1E3
secs turnaround time. The ARPANET looks pretty good by comparison!
(I'm assuming optimal alignment is when Mercury is "beside" the
sun)...
Paul Martin
------------------------------
Date: 8 Dec 1980 11:53 PST
From: Hamilton.ES at PARC-MAXC
Subject: Telepresence
The biggest problem with telepresence is the lightspeed
limitation. The human "sensory quantum" is about 1/20 sec. Light
travels less than 10000 miles in that time. So given processing and
communications delays and the need for instantaneous feedback, any
highly interactive, robotic-type telepresence would start to fall
apart if the control station was more than a couple of thousand
miles from the robot. As for sound, you only have two ears, right?
Binaural (two-channel via headphones, derived from two mikes, one
in each ear of a dummy head) provides uncanny directionality and
realism. Stereo Review sells a binaural demo record. You can hear
things like people walking up stairs, walking around you, etc.
Two channels!
I believe that simulation will have far more applications than
telepresence. The arcade games of 2020 will look like the flight
simulators of today. And as political, social, and economic models
become more credible, it will be through student interaction with
these models that most social science teaching (and even research)
will be done.
--Bruce
------------------------------
REM@MIT-MC 12/08/80 09:23:14
Re: Teleprocessing analogies in alternate worlds
As far as I can tell, your idea doesn't require any A.I. beyond
simple computer-assisted information retrieval and a bunch of good
programming and a massive storehouse of data readily accessible and
properly indexed. If you are willing to sit at a display and audio
system, and can stand the horrid sound of synthesized speech (even
the prosidy at IMSSS is horrible in my opinion), and have a few
billion dollars to pay for the equipment and programmers and data-
base, I think you could get something sort of like what you want.
This is a lot less than full telepresence where you actually
receive simulated brainwaves making you really feel like you're
there. Touchpanel and color monitor is much easier than full
telepresence.
Since it depends on nothing more than a lot of engineering work, I
think it's within the realm of HUMAN-NETS rather than SF-LOVERS.
If you don't have a few billion dollars, would you settle for
Smalltalk running on a Dorado hooked up to a TeraBitMemory for
indexing and machine-readable data and an indexed file of micro-
film in a bank of fast digital-control access devices for the
visual images? For initial runs and human-interface development
I'd suggest having a human interface who sits there and types in
the various commands while you sit there and ask verbally for what
you want (and point to display when you want to pick something on
the screen). A complete transcript of your requests and how the
terminal-operator satisfied them could be used to guide programmers
in making more things efficient and under more reasonable command
(i.e. the DWIM facility could be tuned by programmers who carefully
study the transcript, and things that take a long time to find could
be indexed better).
One person could both be the guinea pig and the operator, but that
would discourage asking for what the person really wants, instead
the person would tend to ask for what he knows he can do, thus
invalidating the experiment.
For the stuff about seeming to enter the shop and ask the shopkeeper
for something, we need either a network of cameras in every store
(1984?) or true simulation of people's behavior (A.I.), neither of
which is feasible in the near future. But all the landsat and
library stuff seems reasonable.
<personal opinion of Robert Maas>
------------------------------
Date: 7 Dec 1980 1446-PST
From: Dave Dyer <DDYER at USC-ISIB>
Subject: plastic fire escape
The idea has some merit, but some real problems too. First of all, a
randomly chosen plastic bag is not a very good helmet. Many types of
plastic are flammable, and give off noxious fumes when burned. Many
plastic bags melt at very low temperatures. So one good blast of hot
gasses, and your escape capsule melts and smears your face with hot
plastic.
It also occurs to me that many potential fire victims only become
aware of their status when the room begins to fill with smoke, so
they would have no assured supply of good air to inflate their
baggie.
Both of these objections could be answered by suitable design of the
bag, and by supplying the bag with several air cartriges, something
like the ones used to inflate life rafts. The design for the whole
rig would look something like a simple face mask with goggles, a
nose-and-mouth piece, and a largish bladder drooping down. Such a
device could be manufactured in large quantities for nearly nothing.
The major cost would be supplying air cartriges. Still cheap at the
price.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Dec 1980 1049-PST
From: HARMON at USC-ISI
Subject: Fire Escape Mechanism Safety
In response to John McCarthy's idea for fire escape (HN II(158)):
I believe that there would be some limitations in using a large
plastic bag as an emergency fire escape mechanism. Before explaining
those limitations I would like to distinguish between two classes of
plastic bags: thin bags (1-2 mil like those bags from cleaners) and
thick bags (5-10 mil trash bag variety). Each class has its
advantages and disadvantages. I will concentrate on the
disadvantages. Anyway, the bag escape mechanism has the following
limitations:
(1) temperature - under fire conditions there is not only smoke
but also heat; this heat could melt a thin plastic bag and,
perhaps, create a more severe problem situation which ends
in suffocation; a thick plastic bag would provide more
resistance to heat failure but not enough to reduce that
danger significantly
(2) visibility - a plastic bag over the head would reduce the
ability to see; this compounds a problem that is already
made severe by the fire; the thicker the plastic bag (and
thus the greater temperature resistance) the more the
visibility would be reduced (the limiting case is an opaque
trash bag; strong but hard to see through); I am sure that
bags could be constructed for this purpose (i.e.,
temperature and puncture resistant with good transparency)
but they are not common today
(3) seal - it would be very difficult to achieve and maintain a
good seal around the neck and usually fire conditions
produce very high levels of CO (orders of magnitude greater
than needed to be dangerous); furthermore, as mentioned,
most plastic bags are not air tight; if the conditions were
right the bag would not provide the desired protection and
the victim would not know when what he did was right (or
wrong) beforehand; one could question this argument on the
grounds of the numerous suffocations occurring as a result
of plastic bags however, it only takes a small part of a bag
to suffocate; it takes an entire bag (and more) to provide
protection from CO poisoning; another issue related to seal
is that of puncture; many times in fire conditions many room
objects are heated; these objects are more likely to violate
the integrity of a bag when contacted; of course, the victim
could attempt to avoid puncture hazards but that places
increased burden on the ability of the individual to
characterize the surrounding environment; this task is made
difficult by the fire, the smoke and the bag; of course,
thick bags are much more puncture resistant than thin bags
(4) capacity - perhaps, a very large bag (e.g., the size of a
cleaning bag) would hold enough air for a calm person under
the right conditions to breathe for 5 min. but, fire
conditions seldom facititate calmness in the participants,
particularly those TRAPPED by the fire; the anxiety induced
by the hazard can increase air consumption and reduce the
survival interval supported by the bag significantly; if the
bag did not provide sufficient time to escape the hazardous
area then the symptoms of increased CO2 level would begin;
most people under those circumstances would remove the bag;
the result is the same or worse than with no bag (i.e., the
bag has just gotten the victim in trouble by inspiring the
false confidence necessary to enter the hazardous (or a more
hazardous) area)
I think that many of the more conventional fire escape methods are
more reliable under most circumstances. Too many deaths from fire
still occur as a result of victims' ignorance of the local
surroundings and suggested fire escape procedures.
Scott Harmon
------------------------------
Date: 9 December 1980 0220-EST (Tuesday)
From: The Moderator
Subject: More on Recursive acronyms
From the hackers glossary:
MUNG (variant: MUNGE) [recursive acronym for Mung Until No Good] v.
1. To make changes to a file, often large-scale, usually
irrevocable. Occasionally accidental. See BLT.
2. To destroy, usually accidentally, occasionally maliciously.
The system only mungs things maliciously.
-- Dwight Hare <DHARE at SRI-KL>
----------
I've always been told that "SPOOL" stands for "simultaneous
peripheral operation on-line". -- Bruce <Hamilton.ES at PARC-MAXC>
For the record, SPOOL = Simultaneous Peripheral Operation, On-Line.
I first heard of it when IBM 360's began running multiple processes.
-- <SWG at MIT-XX>
Sigh. Right you are. SPOOL does indeed mean Simulated Peripheral
Operations On-Line. I could have sworn that it was the first
recursive acronym I ever heard. Well, FOU (FOU On Us).
-- Paul.Hilfinger at CMU-10A (C410PH01)
----------
The one that comes to mind first comes from a book a friend wrote
involving:
A Djinn, who pulled a lamp from her pocket (in one moment)
to relay a request to another
Djinn, who pulled a lamp from his pocket (in 1/2 moment)
to relay a request to another
Djinn, who pulled...
all the way up to GOD, that's
***GOD Over Djinn***,
and all the way back down.
And then there's me. Bil I Lewis <LEWIS at SRI-KL>
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂09-Dec-80 0809 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
you have received a telex from Rose Michaelson from England. Dear John;
Can I use you as a sponsor for Christmas visit if necessary? If not
convenient, please reply. Regards. Rose.
Please telex reply to Rose Michaelson. "Glad to sponsor you. Hope you
will be coming to this area sometime. Regards also from Susie."
If there was a return address, use that, otherwise via RCA Communications to
10, Salisbury Road
Edinburgh
∂09-Dec-80 0931 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Date: 9 Dec 1980 0926-PST
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
To: JMC at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 8-Dec-80 2331-PST
I agree fully.
-------
∂09-Dec-80 1625 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Susan Newman called inviting you and Carolyn to lunch at their offices
on Sand Hill Road on either Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday, Dec. l5-17
about noon. Ms. Newman will be tied up in meetings but she can call
you back at noons or at your home if you wish to talk with her. Other-
wise, please leave a message with her assistant, Helen, at
9 854 6020.
∂10-Dec-80 1402 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
TThe CIS meeting scheduled for Thurs., Dec. l8, have been changed
to Friday, Dec. l9. Same place, same time. ll a.m., McCulloch
Bldg. Lunch.
∂10-Dec-80 1423 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
I cannot pub or edit bernst.ns[f80,jmc]
∂10-Dec-80 1451 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
If he has not reached you by the time you get this message, please
call Martin Greenberger at 9 321 3888
∂11-Dec-80 0141 POURNE@MIT-MC we talked about this before
From: POURNE@MIT-MC
Date: 12/11/80 04:20:01
Subject: we talked about this before
POURNE@MIT-MC 12/11/80 04:20:01 Re: we talked about this before
To: JMC at MIT-MC, POURNELLE at MIT-MC
There is an article in current Commentary which purports to
refute the Rassinier book I mentioned while you were here.
Howefer, much as I admire Commentary, this article does NOT
answer Rassinier at all, but merely calls him anbd his works
anti-semitic. My reading of Rassinier is that he might be
wrong-- I don't have evidence on this -- but that some of what
he says is presuasive, his attacks on some of the "evidence"
cited for the other side are also persuasive, and i hadn't
noticed that he was in any way anti-semitic--unless you take the
view that what he is saying, regardless of its truth or falsity,
is anti-semitism per se.
I find myself now more confused than ever, since the
Commentary article does in no way address the questions raised
by "revisionists", and instead simply asserts that anyone who
questions any part of the Holocaust Saga is an anti-semite.
I don't understand that very well. JEP
I read the Commentary article last night, and I thought about
mentioning it to you and decided against it, because it is written for the
convinced, merely telling them who their opponents are. I would suppose
that some of the books about the holocaust mentioned in the article would
be more convincing than the article itself. The author of the article
mentions a 30 year old, but cannot bring herself to believe that it is
necessary to start from square one again.
Having taken it for granted since 1945 (Note that unlike World War
I atrocity stories, it didn't appear until the end of the war.), I need to
re-examine my sources of information. I find several reasonably
convincing. (1) My mother telling me that all our relatives from Lithuania
were killed. (2) Four other people telling me that their relatives were
killed. One of them was in Russia, where the holocaust against the Jews
is officially minimized. (3) One of them describing how her parents got
her accepted as a Catholic orphan in order to save her. (4) The
acceptance of the contention by the Germans. (5) The defenses at trials
being of the form: I was just an underling and wasn't the person who
actually gave the orders to kill some large number of people. (6) The
Commentary article of (last?) year about the behavior of certain specific
Jews from Warsaw, and the controversy about whether a certain Jew was
killed by another for collaborating. This article excited responses from
several persons who were inmates of that camp and who knew something about
the matter, all saying that the people who were actually present had all
been killed.
I believe there is actually a list of names in Jerusalem as part
of the memorial.
Admittedly all the above could be somehow explained away, but of
the common opinions I presently accept without a personal investigation,
this seems one of the best supported. The existence of such books as
Rassinier's doesn't impress me in itself, because much less important
matters have excited expose books advancing all sorts of theories.
∂11-Dec-80 0401 OTA SPACE Digest
To: SPACE@MIT-MC
SPACE Digest
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 09 Dec 1980 1548-PST
From: Tom Wadlow <TAW at SU-AI>
Subject: Spaceship watching
To: sf-lovers at MIT-MC, human-nets at MIT-MC,
space-enthusiasts at MIT-MC
CC: minsky at MIT-AI, pourne at MIT-MC, OTA at SU-AI
Getting into Edwards AFB for the Space Shuttle Landing
The Public Affairs Office at Edwards will be mailing out
"Shuttle passes" that allow the bearer to enter the gate with ONE
vehicle. That vehicle may contain any number of people. Passes
may be obtained by writing a letter to:
NASA Dryden Flight Research Center
Public Affairs Office
P.O. Box 273
Edwards, CA 93523
If you are planning to charter a bus, you should tell them
how many buses will be in your party and the total number of people
in your letter. They will get the appropriate pass(es) for you and
provide you with a Person to Contact when you arrive.
Pass distribution will begin in February, and passes will
be sent out in the order that requests are received. Approximately
30,000 passes are available (30,000 x 4 people per car is a LOT of
people!!!) and as of Dec 9 there were only 200 requests. They
don't care as to corporate or academic affiliation for the most part.
My partially reliable sources tell me that it will be HOT
on the tarmac so plan accordingly.
Better information will follow as I get it.
-- Tom
------------------------------
Date: 10 DEC 1980 0052-EST
From: SGR at MIT-MC (Stephen G. Rowley)
Subject: analysis of SPS aiming "problem"
To: ENERGY at MIT-MC
CC: POURNE at MIT-MC, SPACE at MIT-MC
There has been some confusion lately about remarks (due to HPM, I
think...) that a geosynchronous satellite moves with respect to
the equator, introducing an aiming problem, etc. Perhaps this message
will be of help.
The problem basically comes down to the fact that both the satellite and
the rectenna are rotating, i.e., in a noninertial frame. The microwave photons,
however, could not care less about this-- they will propagate in a straight
line. Thus, the target "moves out from under the beam".
More specifically:
Let Ve = velocity of the surface of the earth at the equator
Vs = velocity of the satellite in synchronous orbit.
then Ve = w Re and Vs = w Rs where w is the angular frequency of the
earth, Re is the radius of the earth, & Rs is the radius of synchronous orbit.
Since these two velocities are in the same direction, there is a velocity
difference of
dV = w ( Rs - Re )
2 Pi
= ------------- * (42,340 km - 6400 km)
86,400 sec
= 2.614 km/sec
The time it takes the microwave photons to propagate down to the rectenna
is given by
dT = ( Rs - R )/c
= (42,340km - 6400km)/ 300,000 km/sec
= 0.1188 sec
During that time delay, the velocity difference between the satellite and
the surface builds up a distance of
dS = Dv dT
= 2.614 km/sec 0.1188 sec
= 313 meters.
These are, I believe, the numbers Hans quoted.
Is this a "show-stopper?" No more than a flying duck is to duck-hunting:
you simply have to lead your target a little, that's all. We're all too
used to thinking of the velocity of light as infinite, so that when
effects like this show up over distances of orbital size, they are a bit
startling...
Happy orbiting,
$tev
------------------------------
End of SPACE Digest
*******************
∂11-Dec-80 0536 DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II) HUMAN-NETS AM Digest V2 #164
Date: 11 DEC 1980 0829-EST
From: DUFFEY at MIT-AI (Roger D. Duffey, II)
Subject: HUMAN-NETS AM Digest V2 #164
To: HUMAN-NETS at MIT-AI
HUMAN-NETS AM Digest Thursday, 11 Dec 1980 Volume 2 : Issue 164
Today's Topics:
Graphics Query, Communicating via Network - Telepresence,
Computers and People - BART failure & Unauthorized machine use
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 10 Dec 1980 (Wednesday) 1608-EDT
From: DREIFU at WHARTON-10 (Henry Dreifus)
Subject: Request for information:
Genisco 3D graphics system, holographic or otherwise.
(3d airplane picture so better view for Airtraffic controllers etx)
Anything you can find or point me to would be appreciated.
Hank
------------------------------
Date: 10 Dec 1980 (Wednesday) 1505-EDT
From: DGSHAP at MIT-AI (Dan Shapiro)
Subject: landscapes littered with commands, and
Subject: the art of blowing up files with phasers
I'll take two. The nice part about a star wars file system (aside
from the fact that the interface would be so much fun that it could
keep one going for weeks) is that it is so *graphic*. As in the
intent of the delete command is impossible to misunderstand.
What I wonder is how far the idea can be pushed. I often think
about programs in a very physical sense (how the hierarchy of
functions stacks up, or how the problem is divided up into 3
symmetric parts) and an editor or debugger that presented that
analogy as the interface might be very easy to work with. On a
larger scale, if whole systems were constructed to follow some
rigid physical analogy, then our intuitions about the physical
world could directly apply in understanding the abstract object
we were dealing with. If the bandwidth for the graphics were
available, there could be one hell of an interesting environment
on the screen to interact with.
------------------------------
DGSHAP@MIT-AI 12/10/80 14:05:28 Re: sensory depravation tanks
Hey!! I know some people that are into that!!!
Dan
------------------------------
Date: 10 Dec 1980 1717-PST
From: Jim McGrath <JPM at SU-AI>
Subject: computer reliability
Does anyone know the dope on the folowing story? It seems strange
that a simple power faiure could knock out BOTH computers, especially
if they were sited in different areas (which would be reasonable).
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - The ultra-modern Bay Area Rapid Transit
system was shut down for an hour when the two computers that
regulate traffic on the 75-mile system failed.
Officials said the main computer was knocked out about 1 A.M.
Monday by a power failure and the backup system failed about
6:30 A.M.
The trains began running again under manual control about
7:30 A.M., and one of the $1.5 billion system's main computers
was operating by afternoon, Mouber said.
And if they shut down the system because of computer failure, then
why are we paying the engineers in the trains fantastically large
amounts of money (> $25.00 per hour at my last count) to sit there
and be totally useless? (I doubt they could even handle a real
time emergency properly).
------------------------------
Date: 10 Dec 1980 1454-PST
From: the tty of Geoffrey S. Goodfellow <Geoff @ SRI-KA>
Subject: DOE Flap
No More `Star Trek' on CPU
Computer Security Tightened at Sandia Labs
by Jake Kirchner, CW Washington Bureau, Washington D.C.
Federal auditors have all but closed the books on an
investigation into unauthorized computer use by employees of a
government nuclear weapons research center in Albuquerque, N.M.
Although it has not done a follow-up study, the Department of
Energy (DOE) said recently the Sandia Laboratory has taken
"commendable" steps to beef up computer security following
revelations of widespread problems at the facility.
The DOE Inspector General's office here revealed last month it
had found more than 200 Sandia employees had stored a total of
456 unauthorized files on one of the facility's Control Data
Corp. system.
The laboratory, operated for the government by Western Electric
Co., performs nuclear weapons research and development and
conducts research projects in such areas as solar and wind
energy.
Although the lab does classified work, the time-shared CDC 6600
system involved was used for unclassified projects.
DOE Investigation
The DOE investigation began a year ago when the Federal Bureau of
Investigation informed the department it had found one of
Sandia's employees using the CDC system to help local gamblers
run a bookmaking operation.
The employee was fired and a subsequent audit found hundreds of
rather routine, although unauthorized, files that included
several hundred games, such as Star Trek and Adventure, as well
as poetry, jokes, personal letters, a beer collection catalog and
bowling team rosters.
About half the offending employees disregarded an initial warning
to purge the files of unauthorized data and were later
reprimanded, according to DOE.
One of the "most disturbing findings," the DOE said, was that a
so-called "bomb book" was on the system and accessible to all
users. This file contained numerous nuclear test shots.
While not classified, the bomb book was considered sensitive and
was later removed from the system.
This problem and other findings of the investigation raised
questions about Sandia's overall computer security procedures.
The DOE investigators found, for example, that "a common practice
at Sandia was to share passwords among staff people." Also,
passwords were changed only once a year so that a person leaving
Sandia employ could still access the computer system using
another person's passwork.
Another problem was with physical security. DOE said its
auditors observed no security checks on briefcases or packages
carried by Sandia, DOE or contract emplyees.
Policy Directive
Following the DOE investigation, Sandia issued a policy directive
stating any use of a facility computer must be for official work.
DOE also advised Sandia employees that personal or improper use
of the computers would result in disciplinary action.
Employees were further reminded that misuse of government
property is punishable by fine, imprisonment or both.
DOE called for better recordkeeping of computer security
guidelines to employees, as well as periodic random sampling of
computer files to make sure no authorized data is being stored.
[ For earlier HUMAN-NETS discussion of the Sandia Labs incidents
see [HNT V2 #129-131]. -- RDD ]
------------------------------
Date: 11 DEC 1980 0303-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: DOE Flap
I wonder how much the "periodic random sampling" of the files to
find "unauthorized files" will cost...
------------------------------
End of HUMAN-NETS Digest
************************
∂11-Dec-80 0855 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Please call Donna August at 57 845 5776. She says she is associated with
U.C. Berkeley, but did not say what she wanted.
∂11-Dec-80 0936 Janofsky.Tipi at RADC-Multics EVERYTHING You Ever Wanted To Know About Solar
Date: 11 December 1980 12:31 est
From: Janofsky.Tipi at RADC-Multics
Subject: EVERYTHING You Ever Wanted To Know About Solar
To: ENERGY at MIT-MC
I just thought I'd pass on some bibliograhic info on solar, SPS, and
whatnot. (Keeping informed would cost a fortune, so I've indicated the
free goodies.)
1. Someone (Lauren, I think) reported an article in the Nov 80 issue of
MICROWAVES on SPS systems. This article also had an insert announcing
the proceedings of the Lincoln Neb. conference on SPS. My friendly
local technical library went to great lengths to dig up the ordering
info (my thanks to them, even if they never see this message.):
"Final Proceedings of the Solar Power Satellite Program Review", order
No. CONF800491, price $4.00 for microfiche, $33.00 for hardcopy is
available from:
National Technical Information Service (NTIS)
5285 Port Royal Road
Springfield Va. 22161
It is enroute there and should be processed by the time they get your
order. Send check or money order, or use VISA or Master Charge.
2. Also available from NTIS is "NTIS Energy Catalog" (NTIS/PR-78) for
FREE and with NO CHARGE! It covers most of the technical reports issued
by the Solar Energy Research Institute and other federal agencies and
contractors. (p.s. processing at NTIS takes 9-30 days unless you want
PREMIUM service (4-9 days) $3.50 surcharge or RUSH service (1day) for
$10.00 surcharge.. Documents can also be ordered by phone (I think) if
you're using plastic money by calling (703) 557-4650.)
3. The "1980 Solar Energy Information Locator", listing all (or most) of
the Federal, regional, and private organizations offering solar related
publications or info services ,their areas of interest, publications,
and mailing addresses is available from:
Solar Energy Information Data Bank
Solar Energy Research Institute
1617 Cole Blvd.
Golden, Colorado 80401
It also includes an extensive list of periodicals, prices, and who to
write to. There are a number of FREE ones in the list.
4. The GLOOM 2000 report is available from the Gov't Printing Office.
(I don't know if the GPO will accept plastic money so send check or
money order.) Ask for: "The Global 2000 Report to the President" in two
volumes.
Volume one: Entering the Twenty-First" contains a non-technical summary
of the conclusions and predictions. Dated 1977, reprint 1980. Order
NO. S/N 041-011-00037-8, price is $3.50, 50 pages.
"Volume Two: The Technical Report" contains the projections and related
analyses in greater detail. Dated 1980. Order No. S/N 041-011-00038-6,
price is $13.00, 766 pages.
They can be ordered from:
Superintendent of Documents
U.S. Government Printing Office
Washington, D.C. 20402
5. You can also get (FREE) from the GPO the "Solar Energy Bibliography
#9" but I don't have the stock number.
∂11-Dec-80 1100 JMC*
No lunch with Bloom on Friday.
∂11-Dec-80 1627 TOB reference for Brooks
John
Rod Brooks is applying for an appointment at MIT. Mike Brady
is very interested based on what he has seen of our work and
what I have told him about Rod.
Do you know Rod well enough to give him a strong recommendation?
He is the best student in the group in ten years here, an outstanding
researcher.
Tom
∂12-Dec-80 0051 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 12 DEC 1980 0353-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: POURNELLE at MIT-MC, JMC at SU-AI
Agreed that the holocaust happened; the question being only the
extent, which is a grisly inquiry; yet not irrelevent. By
making the number six million, the left tends to minimize the
deeds of the Soviets.
My problem is that the documents cited in the Commentary
article are quoted extensively in Rassinier--and shown to be
inconsistent, both internally and with each other. Now of
course (1) Rassinier may have misquoted the documents, or (2) he
may have been mistranslated; but that is NOT what the
Commentary article alleges, and that's what bothers me.
Second: I grew up with the notion that Buchenwald and
Bergen-Belsen were "Death Camps."; indeed, Buchenwald, far more
than Auschwitz, was synonymous with Nazi atrocities. I am now
told, by MANY sources, that that was all nonsense; that
Buchenwald, and Belsen, and ALL the other camps in Germany
proper were NOT extermination camps, and indeed casualties there
were no greater than one might expect among confined people; but
there were death camps, and these were in Poland--indeed, not
just in Poland, but in those parts of Poland that are hardest to
get to nowadays, parts that were never seen by the IRC which did
inspect some of the camps as part of the Katyn Forest massacres
(which, you may recall, were originally laid to the Germans but
eventually the International Red Cross declared to be Soviet
atrocities). Now once again, I do not of my own knowledge KNOW
that Buchenwald was not a death camp; but I am told that is now
accepted by those who do know; and yet--I see Buchenwald used
still as synonymous with "extermination camp"...
It is this sort of thing which caused me to calculate
the energy required to cremate 6,000,000 people (using as
primary info what Forest Lawn told me they require) and conclude
that the number is too large; there wasn't that much coal
shipped to Auschwitz and Treblinka. I also looked at the rail
system requirements for transporting 6,000,000 (all after the
fall of Poland, recall) and that seems fairly high given the
limited time, although not impossible.
Rassinier quotes documents (Gestner) on methods: Cyclon
B, a cyanide drastic disinfectant, used and then crews removing
the bodies within half an hour of the use of the gas; this is
impossible, as anyone who has used ciphogene in greenhouses
knows. The ventilation requirements are much more stringent
than that--especially since a stack of people would necessarily
contain unventilatable pockets, and thus likely be very
dangerous to the crew assigned to remove the bodies.
Yet the document says that this is how it was done.
I have no stake in this. I certainly have no sympathy
for National Socialism. My partner Possony was a Schussnig man
in Austria and escaped about two hours ahead of the Gestapo. I
grew up in an era of war against Germany. My own temperament
and upbringing makes me more inclined to support "the classes",
which Hitler hated; Triumf des Willin leaves me cold when they
say that some day everyone, even the children of the
aristocrats, will get to do right shoulder shovel...
So it wold be very easy for me to forget the whole
thing, and I was prepared to do so--I didn't send you that book
on the theory that it wasn't all THAT important--until the
Commentary article, which was so patently unfair, got me
thinking again.
Sigh. I'd certainly be better off thinking about almost
anything else; and maybe that's what I shold do. After all, it
is certainly clear that the National socialists killed a lot of
innocent people, some of them Jewish and some of them not;
enough so that it cannot be put to some accident or excess of
zeal on the part of lower officials, but must have been an
official part of the system; thus who cares if it were 900,000
or 6,000,000? But the 6 x 10E6 number is used a lot and tends
to obscure the Gulag; and maybe that's why it disturbs me?
Oh well. I discuss this rarely; why with you I am not
sure; and perhaps it is better left alone?
∂12-Dec-80 1448 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE RA salaries
Date: 12 Dec 1980 1442-PST
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Subject: RA salaries
To: CSD-Faculty: ;
cc: csd.dbrown at SU-SCORE, csd.bscott at SU-SCORE, reg at SU-AI
I have been led to understand that our department pays $1000-$1500 less
for RA's than the EE department pays. The reason for this difference
is unclear, especially as our RA's were last year reclassified as "engineering
research associates" by the provost's office. I therefore propose to
do my best to have salaries brought into line next year. As we must
provide the funds from our contracts, I shall be dissuaded if I hear
substantial protest from the faculty. Please let me know how you feel
about the matter.
-------
∂12-Dec-80 1655 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Date: 12 Dec 1980 1649-PST
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
To: CSD-Faculty: ;
It seems we may be in a position to make some nominations for the president's
advisory committee on computing (the outside visiting committee for CIT
and us). Any suggestions?
-------
∂12-Dec-80 1953 CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE SPO
Date: 12 Dec 1980 1728-PST
From: CSD.ULLMAN at SU-SCORE
Subject: SPO
To: CSD-Faculty: ;
cc: csd.bscott at SU-SCORE
The sponsored projects office is having an open house from 3:30-5:00pm
on Wednesday, 12/17, in the basement of Encina, to which we are all
invited. The announcement did not say whether refreshments would be
served, but I have hopes along that line.
-------
∂12-Dec-80 2148 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) holocaust
Date: 13 DEC 1980 0050-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: holocaust
To: JMC at SU-AI
Since it is obvious that the National Socialists intended the
situation of "no matter who wins the war, the Jews will have
lost it", as you say there are more productive things to spend
one's time with.
I am still concerned that the claims of some of the
holocaust lecturers sound like conjurors' spiels rather than
objective history; but then recall Niven (Larry Niven)'s law:
"there is no cause so noble that it will no attract
fuggheads."
Best, Jerry
PS I mean it: there are MUCh better things to think
about just now; later, perhaps we return to this whe we have
time? Just now the world needs saving...
∂12-Dec-80 2302 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) White house information system
Date: 13 DEC 1980 0204-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: White house information system
To: CBF at MIT-MC, POURNELLE at MIT-MC
CC: MINSKY at MIT-MC, JMC at MIT-MC, LAUREN at MIT-MC, PDL at MIT-MC
CC: ELLEN at MIT-MC, LLW at MIT-MC, RWK at MIT-MC
I have added your message to pournelle;boss > as I have put all
the WHITE HOUSE replies in that file.
(2) Look: I was describing to a couple of friends who can afford
to go work in Washington what the net can do. One said "Wow,
that would be great for the White House and Executive Office of
the President."
"Hell", says I, "that can be arranged for under a
million bucks easy, maybe a lot less than that."
Which is where yu came in; I asked a bunch people on the
net (not using bboard because I am sick of lectures on what I
can with propriety ask a government supported facility to do for
the President of the United States; apparently wine lists are OK
but anything that might help the President is "political") and
you have chosen to get into the act.
Thanks for the help.
JEP
∂13-Dec-80 0604 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Date: 13 DEC 1980 0907-EST
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
To: JMC at SU-AI
Have you contacted a local fire chief with your idea?
If you find one open-minded enough he might offer inteligent
crticism of your idea.
Not yet.
∂13-Dec-80 0947 david at UTEXAS-11 (David M. Phillips) References to Solar Technology for Houses
Date: 13 Dec 1980 at 1024-CST
From: david at UTEXAS-11 (David M. Phillips)
Subject: References to Solar Technology for Houses
To: king at rutgers, lsmith, rwk at mit-mc
cc: david, energy at mit-mc
THE INTEGRAL URBAN HOUSE (by the Farallones Institute. 1978.
Sierra Club Books. San Francisco.) is a fascinating, information
packed guide to "self-reliant living in the city". It covers
conserving energy and water, managing organic and inorganic
wastes, growing plants and animals, solar technology, managing
wildlife, or humans and other species, the house and the street.
I recommend it highly. Even if the self-reliant style of living
is not your cup of tea, it is fun to read about and contemplate.
Its bibliography for the chapter on solar technology might be
of particular interest to you:
Anderson, Bruce. /Solar Energy: Fundamental in Building Design/.
New York: McGraw Hill, 1977.
Barber, E.M., Jr., and Watson, Donald. /Design Criteria for
Solar-Heated Buildings/. Guilford, Conn.: Sunworks, Inc. 1975.
"The Climate Controlled House." /House Beautiful/. Series of
monthly articles, October 1949 to January 1951.
Crowther, Richard L., et al. /Sun/Earth: How to Apply Free
Energy Sources to Our Homes and Buildings/. Denver: Crowther
Solar Group, 1976.
Daniels, Farrington. /Direct Use of the Sun's Energy/. New York:
Ballantine, 1974.
Duffie, John A., and Beckman, William A. /Solar Energy Thermal
Processes/. New York: John Wiley & Sons, 1974.
Eccli, Eugene, ed. /Low-Cost, Energy-Efficient Shelter: For
the Owner and Builder/. Emmaus, Pa.: Rodale Press, 1976.
/In the Bank...Or up the Chimney? A Dollars and Cents Guide
to Energy-Saving Home Improvements/. U.S. Government Printing
Office, No. 023-000-00297-3. Washington, D.C.
Kreider, Jan F., and Kreith, Frank. /Solar Heating and
Cooling: Engineering, Practical Design, and Economics/.
Washington, D.C.: Hemisphere Publishing Co., 1976.
Olgyay, Victor. /Design with Climate: Bioclimatic Approaches
to Architectural Regionalism/. Princeton, N.J.: Princeton
University Press, 1963.
Shurcliff, William A. /Solar Heated Buildings of North America:
120 Outstanding Examples/. Church Hill, N.H.: Brick House
Publishing Co., 1978.
Sunset Books. /Do-It-Yourself Insulation and Weatherstripping
for Year-Round Energy Saving/. Menlo Park, Calif.: Sunset Books, 1978.
Watson, Donald. /Designing and Building a Solar House: Your
Place in the Sun/. Charlotte, Vt.: Garden Way Publishing Co., 1977.
Wright, David. /Natural Solar Architecture: A Passive Primer.
New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold, 1978.
Again, the source of the references is /The integral urban house/.
--david
-------
∂13-Dec-80 0949 FWH PV+A Seminar
To: "@SEM.DIS[SEM,VER]" at SU-AI
PROGRAM VERIFICATION AND ANALYSIS SEMINAR
PLACE: ERL 237
TIME: 2:30 p.m., Tuesday, December 16
SPEAKER: Nori Suzuki, XEROX Palo Alto Research Center
Title: Inferring Types in Smalltalk
ABSTRACT:
This talk will also be presented at 1981 POPL conference. One
of the major advantages of Smalltalk is the late binding. However, this
creates several drawbacks: slow execution, runtime errors, no type
declaration. This paper describes a way to automatically annotate
Smalltalk programs with types so that a smart compiler can statically
bind as much as possible. Type annotation is also useful for
documentation.
∂13-Dec-80 1515 Pool at MIT-Multics Crisis communication
From: Pool at MIT-Multics
Date: 12/13/80 1816-est
Subject: Crisis communication
To: JMC at SU-AI
Message-ID: [MIT-Multics]1.1.BBBJKjjWddflmX
I haven't forgotten our conversation. HLOWEVER|
I'll be away for 2-3 weeks, so won't vbe in
touch before that.
Ithiel
∂14-Dec-80 0006 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) helping the boss
Date: 14 DEC 1980 0308-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: helping the boss
To: JMC at SU-AI
Date: 13 Dec 1980 1134-PST
From: John McCarthy <JMC at SU-AI>
I read your BOSS file. While none of the writers in it knows exactly what
the White House now has, the discussion was quite reasonable. Evidently,
the idea has caught on to the point that much larger amounts of money have
already been spent than you were originally contemplating. There is
always the possibility that whoever is doing the White House job now is
behind the state of the art, but otherwise one would expect things to be
in a reasonable state.
Here are some issues:
1. Is the system used by policy people or merely by secretaries.
If the latter, something isn't being done right.
2. Secure use by remote terminals is feasible. Any documents that
can be entrusted to a safe at someone's home could also be entrusted with
somewhat greater security by a secure terminal at home. The terminal
would need its own editor and would communicate cryptographically.
Ability to use the facilities of the central computer interactively might
be severely limited in order to avoid an interaction style that can be
cryptographically attacked. Actually, I think that can be provided also.
3. Managing the electronic mail of a big shot to whom very many
people want to communicate and who may want to have his mail filtered may
not be an optimally solved problem. There are better solutions than
having a secretary print all the mail and sort it, but I don't know if any
have been implemented. I have noted that the ARPA people are not very
promptly responsive to electronic mail.
4. It would be very important for the White House or Congress
to have publically available computers that can store material for
which public comment is being solicited. The Freedom of Information
Actt can be made much more effective if there is terminal access
to the information that it makes available to the public. There
are already enough terminals so that such facilities would be
extensively used. Perhaps the White House press office would be
a good place to start.
----------------------------
PROBABLY BECAUSE I AM FAIRLY PICKLED, I Fail to
comprehend what this said. But then I do not blow my head off
all that often, so perhaps the . is worth making again?...
∂14-Dec-80 0025 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 14 DEC 1980 0327-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: JMC at SU-AI
Crap doodle, you want sense...when most net user typ[es want to
look good to other net eavesdroppers.
I will recall your plastic bag methos
d when I must know...
JEP
∂14-Dec-80 1419 ME E fix
∂13-Dec-80 1650 JMC
The xpoint <filename>/c should leave you in readwrite mode rather
than readonly.
ME - OK, this is now fixed.
∂14-Dec-80 1630 HEDRICK at RUTGERS extended addressing
Mail-from: ARPANET site RUTGERS rcvd at 14-Dec-80 0613-PST
Date: 14 Dec 1980 0913-EST
From: HEDRICK at RUTGERS
Subject: extended addressing
To: Rindfleisch at SUMEX-AIM, HEDRICK at RUTGERS, cpr at MIT-MC, action at SRI-KL,
To: admin.mrc at SU-SCORE, amarel at RUTGERS, frank at UTAH-20, geoff at SRI-KL,
To: jonl at MIT-AI, josh at RUTGERS, levy at RUTGERS, lisp-forum at MIT-MC,
To: meyers at SRI-KL, guy.steele at CMU-10A, wactlar at CMU-10A, bboard at RUTGERS
Remailed-date: 14 Dec 1980 1627-PST
Remailed-from: Mark Crispin <Admin.MRC at SU-SCORE>
Remailed-to: REG at SU-AI, CSL.FB at SU-SCORE, JMC at SU-AI, RPG at SU-AI,
CSD.Feigenbaum at SU-SCORE
teIn view of the varied responses to my question about extended addressing
Lisp, I thought it would be interesting to try an experiment. So I have
implemented a subset of Lisp on an experiemental basis, using 2-word
cons cells. What I find is that most of the comments about the supposed
disadvantages of extended addressing seem not to be true, but there are
certainly a few holes in the support. In more detail:
The implementation is an A-List Lisp, taken right out of the Lisp 1.5
document (McCarthy et. al). EVAL and APPLY were coded right out of that
book. Enough functions were coded to make it sufficient for
experimental purposes. (55 of them are handcoded, and an init file is
automatically read, to allow others to be defined in Lisp.)
Here are some tentative conclusions:
(1) Performance measures are hard to get, because the technology of the
interpreter isn't good enough to provide a fair test of extended
addressing. (The first test showed that it was spending about 95% of
its time in ASSOC, presumably searching the Alists for variable bindings
and atom property lists for function definitions.) You can get
something that looks like a real lisp in a few days of programming, but
it doesn't work like a real Lisp.
(2) The supposed "kludgey" nature of extended addressing did not show
up. I found that it did exactly what I wanted, and I don't think any
more code was needed than for an 18-bit implementation. As you may know,
in principle there is a 30-bit address space. We use this as
- 1 mark bit
- 5-bit type field
- 30-bit data
Having a mark bit and type field in each object makes the garbage
collector much easier to write (and presumably more efficient). Also, it
seems natural not to have wierd reprentations for numbers and other
objects, since 30 bits is enough to store most of what you want (even
atom headers, it turns out). Basically you get global addressing only
when you want it. References within the code all come out as local
automatically. The only global addresses come from following Lisp
pointers. Even in 18-bit implementations, a CDR consists of
move a,thing
hlrz a,(a)
It really is no worse to do
move a,thing
move a,1(a)
(which is what you do, given that addresses are stored in global form,
i.e. with the high-order bit off).
(3) I have heard that private pages do not exist in extended addressing.
There is no evidence of this. We use the SMAP% jsys to create several
private sections. Once a section is created, pages appear when referred
to, as always.
(4) There are bugs and holes. The major ones we have found are as
follows:
- DDT must be fixed, or it thinks that the first 20 locations of every
section are in the AC's. (Thus programs that work normally fail
when $X'ed.) The address space is in fact continuous, once you
get above section 1. You only get the AC's when you are making
a local reference, which is typically in code, not data. That
is,
SKIPE 1
will give you AC 1, even when running in section 3. But if AC 1
contains 10,,1
MOVE 2,(1)
will give you address 10,,1, not AC 1. The patch to fix this
has been sent to the Top-20 distribution list.
- There is some strange problem such that ↑C followed by running
another program hangs the job. If you ↑C do a RESET command,
and then do something else, everything is fine, as long as you
wait for about a second between the ↑C, then RESET, and the next
activity. But if you skip the RESET, or do things too fast,
your job hangs for about 5 min (and then recovers).
- We got a J0NRUN while I was doing something in a particularly large
core image. I conjecture that this indicates a problem,
although it could also be a disk hardware problem. We will have
to investigate this further.
- The SSAVE jsys doesn't seem to work for extended core images. This
may not be a problem, since one probably needs a more compact
way of saving these things, more like Interlisp's sysout. It is
painful for a quick hack like my existing system, though. (I do
have disk I/O, so you could write a DSKOUT easily enough.)
These don't seem too outlandish, given that we may be almost the first
people to try this sort of programming.
My overall conclusion is that the only real penalty for extended
addressing is that cons cells take up twice as much space. (I don't
think CDR-coding is practical, though someone else may have a way to do
it.) Other than this, it looks like the coding comes out a bit better
than in the 18-bit implementation, because of the room for a mark bit
and type codes. Whether we actually do anything with this depends
upon local priorities.
By the way, I am not clear why people think that VAX has a larger
address space than the 20 (or do people think that?) As far as the
architecture, the 20 has 30 bits and the VAX 31 (one bit is used by the
system). But clearly 30 bits of 36-bit words are more than 31 bits of
8-bit bytes. Now the obvious reply is that the existing 20 monitor does
not support more than about 23 bits at the moment. However I have done
the following calculation to see how much one can actually use on the
VAX. The problem turns out to be page tables. The VAX has a 512 byte
page size. Suppose that one 32-bit word is required in a page table for
each page. This means you need almost 10% as much physical space for
the page table as your virtual memory (4 bytes per 512 bytes). So with a
3 Mbyte machine you can get only about 30Mbyte of virtual memory before
filling up all of physical memory with page tables. Of course something
is likely to give out before that. But suppose that you can really get
32Mbyte of virtual memory. That is in fact slightly less than the 23
bits that are implemented on the 20 (assuming 2 words per cons cell on
the 20 and 8 bytes on the VAX). It seems to me that 512 bytes is a
strange page size for a machine intended to have 31 bits of virtual
address space.
If anyone wants to try my experimental Lisp, it is lying around on line
at the moment (though I don't know how long we will keep it). On
<HEDRICK> at Rutgers, use the following files:
EXLISP.EXE
INIT.EXLISP - should be on your area - read at startup to define a few
useful functions. If you don't have a file by this name, Exlisp
will complain at startup, though it will still work.
EXLISP.MID - source (compile it with Midas - it produces an .EXE file
directly)
EXLISP.DOC - documentation
You can retrieve files from here over FTP by logging in as ANONYMOUS.
Any password will do. (actually at the moment FTP seems not to require
any login to do retrieves.)
PS: Please don't confuse this EXtended LISP with the new Rutgers/UCI
Lisp, currently known as Xlisp. It is based upon the normal 18-bit
design.
-------
∂15-Dec-80 1532 CSD.SCHREIBER at SU-SCORE Meeting
Date: 15 Dec 1980 1524-PST
From: CSD.SCHREIBER at SU-SCORE
Subject: Meeting
To: csd.ossher at SU-SCORE, jeb at SU-AI, csd.gischer at SU-SCORE,
csd.clarkson at SU-SCORE, jmc at SU-AI, csd.yao at SU-SCORE,
csd.rwf at SU-SCORE, csl.lantz at SU-SCORE, csd.schreiber at SU-SCORE,
als at SU-AI
cc: csd.tajnai at SU-SCORE
5A reminder. First meeting of the comprehensive exam committee is
this Thursday, Dec. 18, at 10:00 AM in 301 MJH.
Rob Schreiber
-------------
-------
∂15-Dec-80 1645 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Caroline Henson from Arizona called to say she is hunting for a multiplay
Dungeon game which she thinks is on the Stanford computer. I told her you
were generally in in the afternoons, but if you wish to call her, she is
at 602 622 5293.
∂16-Dec-80 0414 JC Computer usage
Well John..... here we are (CCRMA) at 0400 6 users... and at SAIL...
2 users... only 2!!! and one is me.... want to trade a FOO for
a KL? easily justified, no? john
∂16-Dec-80 1135 CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai) Faculty Meeting Jan. 6
Date: 16 Dec 1980 1134-PST
From: CSD.TAJNAI at SU-SCORE (Carolyn Tajnai)
Subject: Faculty Meeting Jan. 6
To: CSD-Faculty:
cc: CSD.BScott at SU-SCORE, CSD.DBrown at SU-SCORE, CSD.Jeanie at SU-SCORE,
WOL at SU-AI, JEB at SU-AI
There will be a faculty meeting on
Tuesday, January 6, 1981, 2:30 p.m., Jacks 252
Degree candidates will be voted on.
If you have any suggested agenda items, please send them to
CSD.Jeanie@score.
-------
∂16-Dec-80 1306 JMC*
Elephant today.
∂16-Dec-80 1600 Tony Lee Hansen <CSD.HANSEN at SU-SCORE> lisp
Date: 16 Dec 1980 1601-PST
From: Tony Lee Hansen <CSD.HANSEN at SU-SCORE>
Subject: lisp
To: jmc at SU-AI
I'm trying to create an array in one of my functions. The function will be
called recursively, creating a new array each time it reenters the function.
The problem is that the array definition doesn't define a new array, however
it just redefines the old array under the old name. This is not good, as I
want to make changes in the new array without affecting the older version.
I tried to use GENSYM to create a new name for the array, however it bellows
about requiring an atom name instead of the function call. I then tried to
use a lambda function, passing the name created by GENSYM to the function,
but instead the array definition used the name X for its name, the name of
my parameter in the lambda definition. Is there a standard way of doing this?
Or am I trying to make it too hard for myself?
-Tony Hansen
-------
I see your difficulty, but I don't know a standard solution. One way out
might be to subst the gensym into the array statement before executing
it. Since array evidently quotes its arguments, this will give it the
gensym.
∂16-Dec-80 1734 FWH Special Seminar
Special Seminar
---------------
Thursday, December 18, 2:30 pm, Margaret Jacks Hall 402
Speaker: Regimentas Pliuskevicius,
Lithuanian Academy of Sciences, Vilnius, USSR
Title: Axiomatic Systems for Proving Deductions about Programs.
Abstract:
The system deals with so called P-sequents (program sequents)
A←1,...,A←n -> A. Each member of the P-sequent is a Hoare like formula.
Some specializations of the form of deductions (including cut elimination) for
introduced sustems are presented. The systems include while programs,
nondeterministic guarded programs, simple parallel programs and communicating
sequential processes.
∂17-Dec-80 1235 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
A gentleman from IBM Yorktown Heights called to ask for a copy of a
program - Search - Stanford U. Drawing System. I did not know to whom
to refer him. What is it and who knows about it, please.
The program is called SUDS, and you should refer him to Ralph Gorin.
∂17-Dec-80 1245 Buchanan@SUMEX-AIM D.Lenat's reappointmt
Date: 17 Dec 1980 1234-PST
From: Buchanan@SUMEX-AIM
Subject: D.Lenat's reappointmt
To: jmc@SU-AI, rwf@SU-AI, tw@SU-AI
I have requested letters of recommendation from several peopleand
have collected some other material from Doug. We are supposed to
have a recommendation for the Department by Jan 5. Could we plan
to meet on Tuesday 12/30 to discuss the materials in hand at that
time?
The persons I requested letters from are:
W.Bledsoe
R.Reddy
S. Amarel
R. Hayes-Roth
N. Nilsson
A. Newell
P. Winston
In the letter, I asked them for brief comparisons of Doug's demonstrated
capabilities and future promise with those of other persons at about this
stage in their careers. I named the following:
R. Brachman
R. Davis
E. Charniak
D. McDermott
M. Rychener
G. Novak
Do you have suggestions for other letters or other information we should
have? If you want to see copies of two of Doug's most recent papers
(draft form), I have them. I am still in the process of collecting
copies of the published materials in his bibliography.
Please let me know about a time we can meet. If no time is convenient,
we can try to reach some concensus by net mail, but I'd rather we get
together for this.
thanks,
bgb
-------
∂17-Dec-80 1510 DEIGAN FIRE ESCAPE
Date: 17 Dec 1980 1654-EST
Sender: MOOERS.DCI at BBNA
Subject: FIRE ESCAPE
From: DEIGAN
To: JMC at SU-AI
Cc: Mooers.DCI, Mooers
Message-ID: <[BBNA]17-Dec-80 16:54:39.MOOERS.DCI>
HELLO JOHN,
IN REGARDS TO A AIR BAG FOR ESCAPE FROM FIRE, I SAW ON NOVA ALST
NIGHT JUST SUCH A BOG SHOWN.
IF I REMEBER RIGHT IT COULD WITHSTAND 1400 DEG F, WAS CRYSTAL
CLEAR AND VERY LIGHT WEIGHT. THE NARRATOR HELD A BLOW TORCH (NOT
A FINE FLAME, BUT HOT) TO IT WITHOUT DAMAGE. HE WAS WEARING IT
AT THE TIME.
IT HAD AN ALUMINIUM TOP WITH 90% RADIANT HEAT REFLECTANCE.
IT WAS PROPOSED TO AID PEOPLE ESCAPE FIRES IN AND AROUND
AIRPLANES.
I SUPPOSE YOU COULD WRITE NOVA C/O PBS AND ASKED FOR DETAILS OR A
TRANSCRIPT FROM THE "DC-10 SAFETY" SHOW.
GOOD LUCK, JMICHAEL DEIGAN C/O MOOERS.DCI
.
∂17-Dec-80 2212 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle) HELPING THE BOSS
Date: 17 DEC 1980 2348-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Subject: HELPING THE BOSS
To: ELLEN at MIT-MC, PDL at MIT-MC, JMC at MIT-MC, MINSKY at MIT-MC
To: HPM at MIT-MC, LAUREN at MIT-MC, MOON at MIT-MC, CENT at MIT-MC
To: RWK at MIT-MC, ARPA-PROTEC at MIT-MC
(1) This is not an official inquiry because the chap who asked
me to do this hasn't been confirmed by the Senate, but that is
not expected to be any problem.
(2) If we REALLY need an official budget number or whatever
order is required, it can be obtained from just about any level
necessary. I'd really rather not have to do that befor about
February 1, but it can be done.
(3) I am told that they have Multics in the White House and EOP.
I do not (nor does the staffer who's interested) know a damned
thing about multics or indeed any other system.
What happened was that I described how net mail operates
(mailing lists and replies and ability to store messages off in
output files by appending it with a simple command, and
such--RMAIL mostly) to a chap whose name has been in the papers
recently. That coupled with some Wall Street Journal articles
on paperless offices caused a discussion among some people who
will soon have offices in the White House and Old State; they
would like to have this; they couldn't be less interested in
somethng that might happen "Real Soon Now"; I mentioned that
what I work on seems to run off a TOPS XX and the whole system
probably wold run to a megabuck, but it had one advantage,
namely, I KNOW HOW TO OPERATE IT, and thus I COULD PERSONALLY
WRITE user manuals.
This is thought an advantage. I may not be eloquent, but
I am frequently clear.
There has also been mention of a new system which DEC
and XEROX are cooperating on; but I and my informants know
nothng of it.
(4) Therefore: any help in recommending somethng that
would run RMAIL internally for a staff of up to about 200
(although a smaller subset would initially begin it); that if
possible makes use of equipment already installed although that
is not at the moment precisely known due to some access problems
plus some disagreement as to what is owned by the United States
and what is owned by the Democratic National Committee; and
mostly lets you hit the ground with feet running, rather than
getting it any day now as soon as the software is written..
Any such information would be appreciated, and the fact
that such was developed through ARPA communication is probably a
Good Thing.
(5) There MAY be an "eager engineer" situaton here; the
person I will report to does not personally have the authority
to go spend 10E6 bucks on a system; but I am told that that
person's boss WANTS to see the recommendation, and I assure you
that at that level $10E6 is not much money.
(6) You're welcome to pass this one and indeed please
do, but PLEASE NOT to anyone who will send me long messages
about improper use of the net, or who will waste time with nice
theoretical capabilities. Ineed, if you want to broadcast this
to a bboard signed as by yourself and forward replies to me,
please do, but I am about decided that I will never again send a
BBOARD message for any reason whatever.
(7) sorry this is so long. Ideally what I get boils to a
couple of sheets of paper and says Call "XYZ Company, be
prepared to spend $y, and it can be delivered before 15 May.
ZZZ can help with documentation if what you get from XYZ isnt
good enough."
OK? Thanks.
J. E. Pournelle
∂18-Dec-80 1118 STEF at DARCOM-KA Re: HELPING THE BOSS
Date: 18 Dec 1980 1050-PST
Sender: STEF at DARCOM-KA
For the record, there has been lots of such interest around the White
House over the last several years. Carter used Scientific Timesharing
Systems Corp's MAILBOX system in his 1976 campaign and there was a
formal project operated within the EOP for much of the last four years.
They even had some XEROX PARC hardware installed to play with for a
time, and entertained thoughts of interconnection with networks like
APRANET and commercial nets.
To point you into the literature, there is a Feb 80 REPORT OF THE
ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON INFORMATION NETWORK STRUCTURE AND FUNCTION FOR THE
EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT.
I excerpt from the list of committee members the following:
Al Vezza@MIT-DMS, Robert Metcalfe, Howard Frank, and Michael
Dertouzos@MIT-**, among others. Vint Cerf is among those who made
presentations to the committee.
I just think it is important to note that the track has been run before,
and is therefore cleared of some debris, or strewn with more.
Cheers - Stef
∂18-Dec-80 1239 CSD.SCHREIBER at SU-SCORE Comp Ctte Meetings
Date: 18 Dec 1980 1235-PST
From: CSD.SCHREIBER at SU-SCORE
Subject: Comp Ctte Meetings
To: csd.ossher at SU-SCORE, jeb at SU-AI, csd.gischer at SU-SCORE,
csd.clarkson at SU-SCORE, jmc at SU-AI, csd.yao at SU-SCORE,
csd.rwf at SU-SCORE, csl.lantz at SU-SCORE, csd.schreiber at SU-SCORE,
als at SU-AI, csl.sso.owicki at SU-SCORE
cc: csd.tajnai at SU-SCORE, csd.dbrown at SU-SCORE
At our first meeting, we assigned areas to people:
NA - Schreiber
AI - McCarthy
AA - Yao
MTC - McCarthy
Hardware - Lantz, Owicki
Software - Lantz, Owicki
They will make up questions and propose reading list changes for the
next exam.
We agreed to meet on Tuesdays at 10:30 (in 301 MJH pending approval);
our next meeting is Jan. 6.
Please volunteer to help with making up questions.
Carolyn and I have set the exam date as Saturday, Jan. 31.
Is this okay with everyone? (Only one of us needs to be here on the
day of the exam.)
Rob
---
-------
∂19-Dec-80 0124 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 19 DEC 1980 0427-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: JMC at SU-AI
Security and Trojan horses make for fascinating thinking; and
you're right, one worries more about electronics thgan about
paper, although paper is often less secure.
I am not certain that much will come of all this, but
I'm diligently collecting information (more than I wanted to
know about some subjects)...
Thanks,
Jerry
∂19-Dec-80 0700 Randy <CSD.STRAUSS at SU-SCORE> 206 final project
Date: 19 Dec 1980 0700-PST
From: Randy <CSD.STRAUSS at SU-SCORE>
Subject: 206 final project
To: jmc at SU-AI
I chose for my 206 project to write a program to format LISP programs
into external format for TEX. I am sure I can do it, but I am running
very late and have nothing running yet. May I hand it in late? I will
be in this afternoon if you would like to talk to me about it.
thanks, Randy
-------
I can give you more time.
∂19-Dec-80 0916 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
∂14-Dec-80 0031 JMC book
Please have the bookstore order for me "Logic and Databases" by Gallaire
and Minker - Plenum Press.
The bookstore says it will be 4 to 5 weeks and will send you a notice
when it arrives.
∂19-Dec-80 1558 Nilsson at SRI-KL Tie-cheng Wang
Date: 19 Dec 1980 1557-PST
From: Nilsson at SRI-KL
Subject: Tie-cheng Wang
To: ffl at SU-AI
cc: Nilsson, JMC at SU-AI
A few weeks ago I sent JMC a msg about a Chinese person named
Tie-cheng Wang who might want to come to the Stanford CS
Dept. as a student. He needs financial aid also, apparently.
I think John said that he was (or you were) sending him some
application materials. I wrote him saying that Stanford would
be sending him some forms. I got a letter from him the other
day saying that he was awaiting the forms.
This msg is just a check to see if you sent him a form for
applying to Stanford (graduate school) and whatever forms are
needed for applying for an assistanceship.
His address is Mr. Tie-cheng Wang, P.O. Box 2728, Institute of
Automation, Academa Sinica, Beijing, China. Thanks, Nils Nilsson
-------
I believe Fran sent them recently, but she'll answer Monday.
∂19-Dec-80 1951 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas) TMI (DAVID%UTEXAS and JMC%SU-AI)
Date: 19 DEC 1980 2014-EST
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Subject: TMI (DAVID%UTEXAS and JMC%SU-AI)
To: ENERGY at MIT-MC
I don't think Chrysler should have been bailed out, and if they get
bailed out again it's good money thrown after bad. There are too
many cars made, and too many companies in that business, and too many
people spending their lives making them. I'd rather see those people
on unemployment insurance or welfare until they can be accomodated,
rather than prop up a short-term dead-end industry. If the company
owning TMI gets propped up for equally bad reasons, it would not be
quite as bad since nuclear power isn't dead-end on such a short term
(might last millions of years if we go to breeders using seawater
Uranium extraction, as noted earlier; gee, I quote that a lot, anybody
have solid info on that to substantiate the preliminary claims we've
been repeating?), although I'd still be opposed to it. If NRC really
did screw things partly, they should take part of the blame, and the
investors deserve a proportional payment so they lose only the share
they are responsible for.
Hmm, better than unemployment or welfare would be re-employing these
experienced metal workers assemblers et al at fabricating the first
versions of SPSs (prototypes and first experimental stations), on some
sort of new Civilian Conservation Corps program. Seems like putting
together a car is about as complicated as putting together a
Solar Power Station and about the same skills are involved, so they
ought to be easily retrainable.
∂19-Dec-80 1951 Lauren at UCLA-ATS (Lauren Weinstein) TMI
Date: 19 Dec 1980 1727-PST (Friday)
From: Lauren at UCLA-ATS (Lauren Weinstein)
Subject: TMI
To: Energy at mc
On this one, my gut feeling is that the utility is desperately
trying to find some way to get us ALL to pay for its slipup.
Who else could they blame but themselves or NRC? I think they
are grasping at straws. I still remember how they spent hours
trying to keep everyone convinced that nothing had gone wrong,
and that they did not need outside help.
If the industry wants to get people to feel secure with fission plants,
they had better start admitting their mistakes and not try pass
the buck in this manner. It does NOT increase the public's
confidence.
--Lauren--
-------
∂19-Dec-80 1954 Randy <CSD.STRAUSS at SU-SCORE> thanks
Date: 19 Dec 1980 1728-PST
From: Randy <CSD.STRAUSS at SU-SCORE>
Subject: thanks
To: jmc at SU-AI
Thanks for the extension; it's already starting to work... ras
-------
∂20-Dec-80 0141 RMS My mail
Can you make sure it all gets forwarded to MIT?
∂20-Dec-80 0323 SEK
Dear John,
Here is a list of grades on homework and midterms, with a brief discussion
of what grade I think each person should get. Of course the project grades
will affect grades.
75 15 60 ... 100 25 ←← Possible points
HWK1 HWK2 HWK3 MID
---- ---- ---- ---
? c partial 50 57 0 Alfaro, Joe
a 60 12 48 + 86 15 Autilio, Pat
a 68 3 60 + 95 21 Bradford, Ethan
? c-b 56 13 43 63 5 Costello, Peter
a- 75 0 52 + 87 0 Costigan, Peter [PDC]
a- 51 15 28 + 91 10 Craig, John [JRC]
a 56 15 60 93 0 Davey, Mark
a ... 60 92 18 Demetrescu, Stefan (p/nc)
? b 59 15 55 + 78 0 Falis, Ed [EPF]
a 68 7 55 + 91 10 Finlayson, Ross [RSF]
b+ 58 15 60 + 84 0 Hansen, Tony
b-a 64 5 50 84 20 Hartman, Doug [DOH]
b- 63 4 60 + 72 0 Iwasaki, Yumi
c+ 57 13 71 5 Johnson, John (p/nc)
? b- ... 77 0 Kelley, John
a 75 0 60 + 91 25 King, Jonathan [SQU]
a 70 0 60 + 95 5 Malik, Jitendra [JMM]
a 65 2 60 + 94 25 Olum, Ken [KDO]
a 58 15 54 92 25 Pehoushek, Joe
b-a 58 + 87 0 Porter, Rick
... 58 11 60 68 20 Schellentrager, Jeff (p/nc)
a- 61 9 58 + 88 3 Strauss, Randy [RAS]
a- 59 15 60 + 89 25 Taylor, Robert [RRT]
... 52 13 55 64 10 Tsang, Robert (p/nc)
a- 91 25 Wang, Peter
a 75 0 60 + 96 25 Weening, Joseph [JJW]
a 68 7 60 93 15 Yankowski, Fred [FCY]
∂20-Dec-80 1653 BYY maclisp and basic
To: JMC
CC: JMC
Thanks for the message. Someone gave my son a book of games in BASIC for
use on home computers, being confused about what I had at home. I'll try
to return it for something more usable, unless I can figure out how to
use it with the R BASIC command.
I am interested in learning and using the latest version of LISP on
connection with my latest work on model-theory for natural language, which
is very function oriented. Is the MACLISP manual or your book with Carolyn
a reasonable place to start? Jon
∂20-Dec-80 1653 BYY maclisp and basic
To: JMC
CC: JMC
Thanks for the message. Someone gave my son a book of games in BASIC for
use on home computers, being confused about what I had at home. I'll try
to return it for something more usable, unless I can figure out how to
use it with the R BASIC command.
I am interested in learning and using the latest version of LISP on
connection with my latest work on model-theory for natural language, which
is very function oriented. Is the MACLISP manual or your book with Carolyn
a reasonable place to start? Jon
Yes, the book assumes no previous programming, and I'll be glad to
help you get started, and I am interested in applications to logic.
I can get you a copy Monday or sooner if you want and lend you a Maclisp.
There are many LISPs, but MACLISP is the one used on this machine, and
one of the two most used, the other being INTERLISP.
∂20-Dec-80 2340 TVR
∂20-Dec-80 1837 JMC dtn bug
To: MRC at SU-AI, TVR at SU-AI
The bug is more complicated than I thought. Even setting
the number of lines at 20, I can still excite it by M-20 C-n,
if this will bring it beyond the number of lines that exist.
The symptom of the bug is a loop in dtn at SAIL.
I'm not sure what you are talking about. I do know that there were a number
of bugs in SUPDUP user program having to do with positioning. I don't know
about any with regards to endless loops.
The bug is as follows:
DTN SCORE
TER DATAMEDIA
login
EMACS <some short file but more than one screenful>
When I do M-20 C-N under certain circumstances, the screen blacks out
and my WHO line shows that SUPDUP is in a loop at SAIL.
It is somewhat sensitive to the declared line length, but I haven't
found any line length that prevents it. It is reliable enough to demonstrate.
It occurred when I was using an Imlac from home, but I don't suppose
that SUPDUP knows about that.
∂21-Dec-80 1308 OAF at MIT-MC (Oded Anoaf Feingold)
Date: 21 DEC 1980 1610-EST
From: OAF at MIT-MC (Oded Anoaf Feingold)
To: lauren at UCLA-SECURITY, lewis at SRI-KL, McLure at SRI-KL
To: Knutsen at SRI-KL, milunovic at SRI-KL
To: Schauble.Multics at MIT-MULTICS, York.Multics at MIT-MULTICS
To: Rae at MIT-ML, Geoffm at RAND-AI, Decoste at LL, jpm at SU-AI
To: rah at SU-AI, jmc at SU-AI, csd.Spencer at SU-SCORE
To: Janoski.Tipi at RADC-MULTICS, dreifu at WHARTON-10
To: mosesj at WHARTON-10, westfw at WHARTON-10, Haas at USC-ECL
To: Stewart at PARC-MAXC, Gilbert at MIT-XX, md at MIT-XX, mt at MIT-XX
To: geoff at DARCOM-KA, katz at USC-ISIF, Britt at USC-ISIB
To: hacks at RUTGERS, segal at RUTGERS, clive at UTEXAS-11
To: david at UTEXAS-11
Administrivia here:
ENERGY Archives without archiving filler (RMAILable) have
been created.
They cover the period 5/16/80 to 10/24/80. They are named
MC:OAF;ENERGY ARC001
MC:OAF;ENERGY ARC002. They can of course be FTPed sans
password.
Future issues will have boringly analogous names. Incoming mail
is gathered into the file MC:OAF;ENERGY RECENT, created a few hours
ago.
In each archive file, the first entry contains an index. The indices
are different because one I made and the other JPM@SU-AI made. Your
suggestions regarding appropriate future formats will be greatly
appreciated.
There is one message I know to be missing from ENERGY ARC001 (the first
file), namely a contribution by INNERS@??? (some west coast host) on
August 21, 1980, regarding resource depletion. Anyone who can fill
that lacuna in is welcome to mail me the information. If you can spot
other missing objects please let me know.
I will try to fill in the remaining gaps over the next few days, but
it may slip out of my time-in-the-country window, in which case I won't
get on it until mid-January.
Suggestions on any subject mentioned above (and some not mentioned above)
are welcome. Thanx for your patience.
Oded
∂21-Dec-80 1515 SOL via MIT-TIP ithiel
Ithiel had his spleen removed for a maligancy last Thursday.
He is in Mt AubrunHospital in pretty good spirits. He canbe reached
at 617 492-3500 room 7039. mid afternoon is
best. We are getting him a pportable terminal after the
new year.
richard
∂22-Dec-80 0754 Paul Horwitz at BBN Who Pays for Three Mile Island?
Date: 22 Dec 1980 1024-EST
Sender: PHORWITZ at BBND
Subject: Who Pays for Three Mile Island?
From: Paul Horwitz at BBN
To: Energy at MIT-MC
Message-ID: <[BBND]22-Dec-80 10:24:27.PHORWITZ>
It's an interesting question, and I don't think there any
fast and "easy" answers to it. Three Mile Island (and any other
major industrial accident) entails huge costs which have got to
be borne by SOMEBODY. The question of how they are to be
apportioned among, for example, the management of the utility,
the employees of the utility, the nearby residents of the area,
the rate payers, the stockholders, the various affected political
subdivisions (e.g. local, state, and federal taxpayers) is
neither simple nor merely a question of "who's at fault". For
example, if GPU is unable to raise sufficient cash through
private money markets, is prohibited from assessing its customers
for its additional expenses, and does not receive a "bail out" in
the form of public funds, it seems to me that it will necessarily
go into receivership. (There may be other alternatives, but they
don't occur to me at the moment.) If this happens, there may be
a serious disruption of service to the customers of GPU, which
would place most of the burden of TMI directly on the people who
might (although it appears, according to Kemeny, Rogovin et al,
that they did not) have suffered dire physical health
consequences from the accident. (That many of them did, indeed,
suffer psychological damage is beyond question.) This would seem
to me quite unfair, yet it might be a logical consequence of
"doing the right thing" from another standpoint.
∂22-Dec-80 1015 RAK via SU-TIP TV commercial
I caught a bit of a TV commercial over the weekened which started by
showing the setting sun, with voice over something like,
"The sun is our largest nuclear plant, 93 millinon miles away. And that's
about as far away as a nuclear plant needs to be to be safe...."
It went on like that, for a minute, and then something looking like
"State something-or-other" came on as the attribution. Do you know
about this sort of thing? Is that something that a State agency can get
away with, even with Jerry Brown?
Dick
∂22-Dec-80 1025 FB via PARC-MAXC Vax(en)
You now have an account on Diablo. You are "jmc" and your password is not set.
Type "r chat<cr>" and then "diablo" to the "Host:" prompt. After you log
in you might try the "learn" command. Let me know how it goes.
Forestr
∂22-Dec-80 1155 FFL
To: JMC, FFL
Nadia called.
Nadia 547 26 9624A
Michael V. 555 28 8907A
Telephone: 566 353l
∂22-Dec-80 1845 REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas) Who Pays for Three Mile Island?
Date: 22 DEC 1980 2144-EST
From: REM at MIT-MC (Robert Elton Maas)
Subject: Who Pays for Three Mile Island?
To: Paul Horwitz at BBNC
CC: ENERGY at MIT-MC
"There is nothing to fear but fear itself" -- if anybody suffered
psychological harm from a non-meltdown at TMI, it's because of
their own paranoia and I have no feelings that they are victimized
except by themselves. Why don't people get afraid of dying from
coal fumes, and start suing the coal companies for psychological damage?
That would be more reasonable.
As for the monetary loss, if it turns out that company is fully
at fault, they should pay it all, and if they go into receivership,
so be it. Given the choice of throwing their major utility into
receivership, and passing an emergency bill to permit passin some
of the loss to customers, if passing the loss causes less pain to
customers than going into receivership then their legislative body
should surely pass the bill. If they don't, out of stupidity or
desire to save face or whatever, they derseve they get in the way
of service disruption. You can't have you cake and eat it too,
either you make sure that utility doesn't go broke, or you lose it.
You can't have it both ways. If the voters of that state want
it to go broke, then let them suffer the consequences.
By the way, on a per capita basis among all customers, what is the actual loss
from the TMI plant loss? Would it be too much for all customers to
chip in and pay a one-time bail-out charge? Something like that
happens here in California every couple years. When there's a dry
year so PG&E loses much of its hydroelectric supplies, the state PUC
grants a rate increase to allow buying fuel oil to burn and to import
electricity directly from other states. If they refused that rate
increase, PG&E might be in financial trouble too. (When the crisis
is over due to return of rain, rates are lowered again.) The magnitude
of the problem isn't the same, and the cause is different, but the
idea of adjusting rates to keep the utility in busness but not making
windfall profits, is the same.
∂23-Dec-80 0106 POURNE@MIT-MC Upcoming conference
From: POURNE@MIT-MC
Date: 12/23/80 04:07:18
Subject: Upcoming conference
POURNE@MIT-MC 12/23/80 04:07:18 Re: Upcoming conference
To: JMC at MIT-MC
Have you interest in this? Sufficient that you might like to
come down for it on weekend of 30th Jan?
POURNE@MIT-MC 12/23/80 03:49:12 Re: Man in space
The other thing that's been eating my time is papers for
transition team, and especially policy papers on man in space.
It turns out that J R Pierce is one of our (well my, anyway)
chief opponents, holding out for development of all sorts of
black boxes, which I can't think can mature for quite a while.
The result is disagreement among the space enthusiasts
on the advisory committee, which means the budget cutters
exploit the disagreements to cut EVERYTHING.
I have got myself a small ($5K) grant to hold a small
conference at end of January with some astronauts and soem
engineers and like that; we're going to try to write a space
policy with milestones and dollars and goals and objectives and
sane plans (and waldo development) which we will turn in with
persuasive remarks in an attempt to get this as THE national
policy. It's even possible this will do it; more likely, no,
because they are now talking about what is being called "A Von
Neumann Committee" to determine national space policy. It is
possible you will be asked to be on THAT committee. It's even
possible that I will be.
Just keeping you informed.
Jerry
Yes. I would certainly come to the space meeting if invited.
As to what you do about having said things about LISP, that the
M.I.T. people disagree with, and I would probably disagree with,
just keep saying what you think. I suppose you haven't written
the kind of program that LISP is good for. Perhaps if I look at
the "flame", I'll have some rebuttals or offer some education.
I find controversies about LISP and also about AI rarely worth
getting involved in except as a vehicle for making points that
I want to make anyway. The same effort in put into actual work
changes more minds than any amount of argument.
This depends on the fact that most of the relevant Government
funding decisions are not based on public opinion.
∂23-Dec-80 0109 POURNE@MIT-MC BOY can I get myself in trouble...
From: POURNE@MIT-MC
Date: 12/23/80 04:12:12
Subject: BOY can I get myself in trouble...
POURNE@MIT-MC 12/23/80 04:12:12 Re: BOY can I get myself in trouble...
To: MINSKY at MIT-MC, JMC at MIT-MC, PDL at MIT-MC
I sent following to ELLEN who suggests that I have a drink.
Must I write 500 lines
"I think LISP is wonderful because..."
?
POURNE@MIT-MC 12/23/80 03:23:25 Re: now whadda I do , Coach?
Given the following:
MSG: POURNE 1
DANIEL@MIT-AI 12/22/80 18:26:06 Re: Jerry Pournelle and Lisp.
In the december issue of Byte Jerry has poured forth some
of his views on Lisp. These include "It's also very nearly impossible
to understand a LISP program, even if you wrote it; at least that's been
my experience." and "But for general-purpose programming, LISP and APL
are, in my judgement, simply too obscure." Other winning excerpts
are in the file daniel;pourne flame.
Given also that I am writing in a MICRO COMPUTER MAGAZINE for
USERS and that my column is called THE USERS COLUMN, so that my
remarks on LISP (Which is after all written by a good friend,
and used by dozens of my friends) were intended in a particular
context; and given that I ain't gonna do bboard messages no
more; what does one do?
∂23-Dec-80 0120 Boyer at SRI-VIS11 (Bob Boyer) Inverting Permutations
Date: 23 Dec 1980 0120-PST
From: Boyer at SRI-VIS11 (Bob Boyer)
Subject: Inverting Permutations
To: JMC at SU-AI
Did you receive the message providing a pointer to our
theorem-prover's proofs of your theorem about twice
inverting permutations?
I reiterate willingness to give a lecture to your LISP
class.
-------
No, I didn't receive a message referring to a complete proof. Also I was
too far behind at the end of the quarter to ask for a lecture from you,
but I hope you'll still be willing next year if still here.
∂23-Dec-80 0140 Boyer at SRI-VIS11 (Bob Boyer) Inverting Permuations
Date: 23 Dec 1980 0139-PST
From: Boyer at SRI-VIS11 (Bob Boyer)
Subject: Inverting Permuations
To: JMC at SU-AI, CLT at SU-AI
I am disappointed that you didn't receive the following
message earlier. Please let me know if you receive this
message. When are you next going to give a LISP class?
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1-Dec-80 02:38:06-PST,8619;000000000001
Date: 1 Dec 1980 0238-PST
From: Boyer
Subject: Permutations
To: JCM at SU-AI, CLT at SU-AI
Here's a report on my efforts at proving your theorem about
inverting permutations.
[moved to proofs[f80,jmc]].
∂23-Dec-80 0821 Baskett.PA at PARC-MAXC Sail chat
Date: 23 Dec 1980 08:19 PST
From: Baskett.PA at PARC-MAXC
Subject: Sail chat
To: MRC@Sail
cc: JMC@Sail
More minor problems with Sail Chat.
---------------------------
Mail-from: Arpanet host SU-AI rcvd at 23-DEC-80 0232-PST
Date: 23 Dec 1980 0228-PST
From: John McCarthy <JMC at SU-AI>
Subject: chat and diablo
To: FB at SU-AI
I called Diablo with chat, logged in and tried to use learn. However,
whenever the required response was <cr> without anything before it,
chat hung, and the only thing to do was to <call> out and try again.
LEARN worked ok in the Diablo room, however. It has a certain "peek
through a knothole" approach, but I learned how to rename all files
whose 3rd letter is "w".
------------------------------------------------------------
∂23-Dec-80 0927 FORWARD at USC-ECL Lewis Advanced Space Propulsion Award
Date: 23 DEC 1980 0927-PST
From: FORWARD at USC-ECL
Subject: Lewis Advanced Space Propulsion Award
To: MORAVEC at CMU-10A, MINSKY at MIT-ML, JMC at SU-AI,
To: LLW at SU-AI, RAH at SU-AI
cc: RLFORWARD
On the inside back cover of Aeronautics and Astronautics
is the announcement of an award by NASA Lewis of (up to) $25,000
(they are tricky, read the fine print) for the best new
space propulsion ideas. It would seem to me the rotating tether
ideas of John and Hans, the fusion pellet propulsion ideas of the
LL gang, and the vertically elevated tower might be candidates.
Bob
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∂31-Dec-80 2359 CSD.BSCOTT at SU-SCORE ARPA Moneys
Date: 31 Dec 1980 1157-PST
From: CSD.BSCOTT at SU-SCORE
Subject: ARPA Moneys
To: JMC at SU-AI, TOB at SU-AI
cc: CSD.BScott at SU-SCORE
Your total ARPA contract i $817,872 for the period 10/1/79 - 9/30/81.
Of this total, 50.46% was for McCarthy and 49.53% was for Binford.
The first increment of $305,000 was received and shared by both your
projects. As of 9/30/80 (the end of the first year) an almost exact
$305K had been spent.
An additional $410,000 increment was received recently. Since the
proposal budget was divided almost evenly between your projects, is it
satisfactory to you both to have the $410K and the remaining $102,872 yet
to be received divided equally?
If so, I will proceed immediately to set up separate accounts for each
of you. The charges made by Binford since 10/1/80 will be transferred
to his new account.
Please let me know as soon as possible if these arrangements are
agreeable to you.
Thanks,
Betty
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∂01-Jan-81 0011 MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
Date: 27 DEC 1980 1908-EST
From: MINSKY at MIT-ML (Marvin Minsky)
Sent-by: MINSK0 at MIT-ML
To: POURNE at MIT-ML, MINSKY at MIT-ML
CC: jmc at SU-AI
It occurs to me that perhaps the security systems, e.g.,
MULITCS and all that actually pre-date the advances in cryptography
that came in the last 3 or 4 years -- the experts on this are Ron Rivest
here and Whitfield Diffie in Palo Alto, and some others.
With these systems, files are secure up to to personal cryptokeys
of the users, and the encoding-decoding can be done by
small chips (which may not quite yet exist but are in the works).
Therefore, each user could have his own home terminal system, containing
the encryption stuff, while the time-sharing = mail system
need not be secure because no one unauthorized can make sense of its
file contents.
This might entirely change the shape of things, and one could hire Diffie or
someone to study the possibility, and recommend a system based on it
within a year or so. The nice thing would be the new idea that all the security
is in the local machines which can be protected by more conventional means,
whereas the current systems are presumably much more complicated and vulnerable
-- especially, I bet, to unintentional leaks due to bugs rather than malice.
∂01-Jan-81 0008 Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE> Office mates
Date: 30 Dec 1980 1504-PST
From: Denny Brown <CSD.DBROWN at SU-SCORE>
Stanford-Phone: (415) 497-2274
Subject: Office mates
To: rww at SU-AI
cc: jmc at SU-AI
Time to figure out who to room with you for Winter (at least.)
Suggestions:
1. Golub has a visitor who smokes alot and one who doesn't.
He planned to room them together. We could move Ann in
with the NA smoker, and the NA non-smoker in with you.
This would be a pretty easy, no-cost change.
2. Barry Soroka would like to get out of Tom's office. If
it would make sense to you, we could move Barry in with
you. This would cost us one space, since I don't have
anyone to move in with Tom, but might be worth it for
Barry's sake. I haven't suggested it to Barry yet.
John, what do you think?
Of course, this leaves Ann in the air, but that is my problem.
3. Maybe you guys already have some plans you haven't told me
about?
4. I'm looking for a place to put Sue Graham. She's coming on
sabbatical. She will be here 1/81-12/81. You needn't commit
to the entire year, of course.
-Denny
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∂31-Dec-80 2357 david at UTEXAS-11 Study Says A-Power Has Gotten $40 Billion in U.S. Subsidies
Date: 28 Dec 1980 at 1712-CST
From: david at UTEXAS-11
Subject: Study Says A-Power Has Gotten $40 Billion in U.S. Subsidies
To: energy at mit-mc
"Nuclear power has received almost $40 billion in federal subsidies
the past 30 years and would otherwise be twice as costly and unable
to compete even with oil-fired electricity, according to an unpublised
Department of Energy Study," reports the Washington Post in an article
December 26th.
"The 75-page report from the Energy Information Administration's
Office of Economic Analysis said nuclear power has benefited since
its birth from federal aid... The total is $39.9 billion in constant
1979 dollars."
"...if the subsidies had been borne by private industry, nuclear
power that DOE says now costs 2.2 cent per kilowatt hour (kwh) when
it leaves the plant would cost an additional 1.6 to 2.5 cents, or up
to 4.7 cents per kwh, more than twice as much."
"Oil-fired electricity...now costs about 3.75... Nuclear power
has always cost slightly less than coal power, which is now at about
2.25 cents per kwh at the plant gate. Transmission charges add about
40 percent to all three kinds of electricity, and the national
average price to the consumer is now about 4.5 cents per kwh.
...
"``The result has been that current production of electricity from
nuclear power stations is substantially larger than it would have
been in the absence of such subsidies,'' the report said."
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∂01-Jan-81 0017 Schauble.Multics at MIT-Multics Long term projects????
Date: 24 December 1980 03:00 est
From: Schauble.Multics at MIT-Multics
Subject: Long term projects????
To: space at MIT-AI, energy at MIT-AI
The following is an excerpt from the Scientist of the Year Lecture
given by Jacob Rabinow at the National Bureau of Standards. It may
offer an insight into some of the problems associated with large
projects.
= = = = = = = = =
... And talking about vulgarities brings me to another subject that
I was going to touch upon today but only for a short time. That is the
fact that most of the management of our largest commercial and
industrial empires is not, technically speaking, quite vulgar. We have
people who are bookkeepers, accountants, or "bean counters" running
tremendous empires, and because they can only understand money, they
take a short-term view.
I used to think that they take the view expressed by the words:
"What will be the bottom line next year?" I was told by several people
that this is a little optimistic. They like to know the profit picture
every three months, by quarterly reports. If the quarterly reports show
that you are not making money they fire you, and if you are making
money, they promote you. In either case, you will not be there a couple
of years from now, so why bother to plan for the future?
- - - - - - End of quoted text - - - - - -
One of the theoretical advangates of capitalism is diversity. If
eighteen different people set out to solve the same problem, they will
very likely pick eighteen different methods. The ones that pick
workable methods will get rich and the other will go broke, thus the
good methods survive and get propagated. Just like evolution.
Currently, just about every major business in the country is run
by managers trained in a particular set of methods. These are the
managements techniques as taught by the Harvard Business School and
Stanford. Because of the prestige of these two schools, almost every
other business school teaches very similar things. Because managers
hire other managers, there is a string prejudice towards hiring people
trained in these familiar techniques. So, we have every major business
run by basically the same methods.
If this set of methods is defective, and I believe that it is, it
could damage EVERY business in the country. Furthermore, since the
methods taught include the methods for evaluating the success of the
methods, and since everyone is using the same methods, you can't
discover the failure either by internal techniques or by comparison
with other businesses in the country.
I suspect that most of us lack the business administration
training necessary to fully appreciate the following story. I know I
do.
Suppose that Earth is contacted by Aliens. They make us a very
interesting offer. They will give us unlimited energy sources, space
travel, full access to their technology and that of all of the
civilizations in the Galaxy. This will end material and energy
shortages, remove all medical problems, and in general free us from all
material wants. There is only one catch: At the end of 1000 years,
every then living member of the human race will be painlessly rendered
sterile.
Our scientists examine samples of their records and devices, and
use the Alien's communication systems to check out their references
with other civilizations. The conclusion is that the Aliens are quite
capable of doing exactly what they say, and in all known past dealings
that anyone has had with this race, their word has been good.
Question: Should we accept their offer? Justify you answer using a
standard cost-benefit analysis.
I have put this question to several business types. I have yet to
find anyone who would accept the offer, nor have I found anyone who
could tell me why not.
If the analysis techniques taught to most managers would cause
them to accept this offer, what does this say about other decisions
made using the same tools? And consider that the tools are the same in
almost all businesses.
∂01-Jan-81 0017 POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
Date: 24 DEC 1980 0354-EST
From: POURNE at MIT-MC (Jerry E. Pournelle)
To: JMC at SU-AI
I do hope you read the actual article that I wrote...and not
just the uninhibited reply from the chappie who used the
messages system.
Thanks for the history paper; I have read it quickly and
intend to go over it more thoroughly; I must say it seems
decisive and well done.
Best, JEP
∂01-Jan-81 0026 CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE Faculty Meeting Agenda
Date: 31 Dec 1980 1040-PST
From: CSD.JEANIE at SU-SCORE
Subject: Faculty Meeting Agenda
To: CSD-Faculty: ;
cc: csd.bscott at SU-SCORE
Agenda for Faculty Meeting January 6, 1981
AGENDA ITEMS
Reports:
1. Degree Candidates (Tajnai)
2. Use of IBM Gift (Ullman)
Old Business:
1. Report Distribution to Foreign Countries
New Business:
1. SCORE and SAIL Instructional Use
2. MS Enrollments
3. Comprehensive Exam Contents
4. Industrial Contracts Policy
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